Joan Scheur interviewed by Caitlin Haskett, July 10, 2019
Transcript
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Caitlin HaskettThe following interview with Joan Scheuer was conducted by Caitlin Haskett on
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Caitlin Haskettbehalf of Bryn Mawr College as part of the project "Mid-Century Jewish Martyrs:
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Caitlin HaskettA Collection of Oral Histories." It took place on July 10th at Joan's
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Caitlin Hasketthome, [redacted],
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Caitlin HaskettNew York City, New York. To begin with,
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Caitlin Haskettcan you tell me a little bit about where you grew up and what that was like?
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Joan ScheuerYes, I can. I was born in 1921.
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Joan ScheuerThat makes me 98,
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Joan Scheueras you probably realize, in New York City,
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Joan Scheuerand then my family moved to the suburbs. We
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Joan Scheuerlived in Scarsdale. It was,
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Joan Scheuerwhen we came there,
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Joan Scheuera very mixed community now that I think
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Joan Scheuerof it. My family had much
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Joan Scheuerof the issues of being Jewish in
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Joan Scheuera non-Jewish environment for a while,
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Joan Scheuerbut they paid very
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Joan Scheuerlittle attention to it I thought at the time.
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Joan ScheuerI went to school there for a few years,
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Joan Scheuerand finally my mother sent me
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Joan Scheuerto Fielston. I don't know whether you know much about it.
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Joan ScheuerIt's a high school in the Riverdale
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Joan Scheuerarea of the Bronx, a very beautiful campus,
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Joan Scheuerand a wonderful school.
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Joan ScheuerShe thought that I would get more
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Joan Scheuerout of it, which indeed I did.
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Joan ScheuerI loved the school and was very progressive at
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Joan Scheuerthe time. It had good art
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Joan Scheuerand very interesting teachers came there. That was a
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Joan Scheuergood
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Joan Scheuerhigh school experience for me.
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Joan ScheuerI have twin sisters,
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Joan Scheuerthey're four and a half years younger than I,
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Joan Scheuerand they're very active,
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Joan Scheuervery cute children. I enjoyed them when we were young,
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Joan Scheuerbut
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Joan ScheuerI was not part of their lives very much because four and a half years makes
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Joan Scheuera lot of difference at that age.
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Joan ScheuerMy life didn't really get going
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Joan Scheueruntil I got out of college,
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Joan Scheueryou know about Bryn Mawr.
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Joan ScheuerWe can discuss that in more detail if you like.
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Caitlin HaskettYeah. Can you tell me about what your parents did growing up,
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Caitlin Haskettmaybe what your father's profession was?
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Joan ScheuerHe was a lawyer.
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Joan ScheuerHe never wanted to work for a firm.
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Joan ScheuerHe was not financially very
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Joan Scheuersuccessful,
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Joan Scheuerbut my mother's family was quite
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Joan Scheueraffluent by that time.
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Joan ScheuerThey helped us move out of the city when I was
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Joan Scheuereight to Scarsdale.
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Joan ScheuerThey helped us get established in a little
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Joan Scheuerhouse in Scarsdale. As a family,
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Joan Scheuerwe were very lucky in
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Joan Scheuerthe Depression years.
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Caitlin HaskettWhat about your mother? Did she stay at home with you?
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Joan ScheuerShe stayed at home.
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Joan ScheuerShe was a pioneer
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Joan Scheuereducator. She helped start something called the
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Joan ScheuerChildren's Book
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Joan Scheuerand Play Association, something like that,
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Joan Scheuerwith a woman named Clara Blitzer,
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Joan Scheuerwho was also well known in the early
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Joan Scheuerchildhood education field.
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Joan ScheuerThey were quite pioneering about what they did
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Joan Scheuerand tried to do for kids. She
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Joan Scheuerwas a creative person.
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Joan ScheuerI think she either ran
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Joan Scheuerfor
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Joan Scheuercongress one year or tried to. She was pretty active.
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Joan ScheuerMy father was a supportive man. He
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Joan Scheuerdid a lot with me,
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Joan Scheuerand we went fishing, and we did fun outdoor things.
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Caitlin HaskettLovely.
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Joan ScheuerYeah.
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Caitlin HaskettWhat was your religious background like growing up?
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Joan ScheuerIt was Reform Jewish exposure.
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Joan ScheuerThey sent me to Sunday school.
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Joan ScheuerIt was
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Joan Scheuerheld in a church, so we
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Joan Scheuerwent to the church every Sunday,
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Joan Scheuerand made clay figures of
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Joan Scheuerpeople who lived in tents who were supposed to be our
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Joan Scheuerancestors. It was not
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Joan Scheuera serious Jewish study, and nobody ever,
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Joan Scheuerbecause there was no Israel at that point.
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Caitlin HaskettYeah.
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Joan ScheuerI didn't learn much about being Jewish. However, my family,
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Joan Scheuermy parents'
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Joan Scheuerfriends that they saw in the area were mostly
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Joan ScheuerJewish. The whole county
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Joan Scheueraround that town was our field
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Joan Scheuerof collecting other Jewish families
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Joan Scheuerfor social contacts.
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Caitlin HaskettDid you ever go to synagogue for religious services or celebrate Sabbath at
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Caitlin Hasketthome, anything like that?
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Joan ScheuerNo.
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Joan ScheuerWe did not celebrate Sabbath at home.
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Joan ScheuerWe
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Joan Scheuerdid go to some things like they had social events
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Joan Scheuerthat brought us in contact with other Jewish
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Joan Scheuerfamilies, but not on a religious basis that I remember.
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Caitlin HaskettI see.
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Caitlin HaskettMaybe we can shift now in talking about the decision for you to attend
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Caitlin HaskettBryn Mawr. Do you remember how it would decided that you would go to Bryn Mawr?
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Joan ScheuerWell, I graduated a year ahead of myself,
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Joan Scheuerand that framed everything.
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Joan ScheuerI had to make college applications on
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Joan Scheuermy own, and I had visited Bryn Mawr.
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Joan ScheuerOf course I thought it was beautiful,
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Joan Scheuerif nothing else it's beautiful.
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Joan ScheuerI didn't particularly want to go to
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Joan Scheuera girl's
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Joan Scheuercollege,
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Joan Scheuerbut it was the first college that returned my application with an acceptance,
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Joan Scheuerso I grabbed it. That seemed to settle
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Joan Scheuereverything.
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Joan ScheuerI'm not sorry.
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Joan ScheuerI think I got a great education there.
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Caitlin HaskettWhat did your family think about your choice?
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Joan ScheuerThey always just sort of supported me.
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Joan ScheuerThey didn't have much of a decision role in
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Joan Scheuerthe choice.
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Joan ScheuerThey were very glad that I got accepted,
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Joan Scheuerand that was fine. Did I get any financial help?
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Joan ScheuerI did get
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Joan Scheuermaybe partial help,
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Joan Scheuerbut that might have relieved my father a little.
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Joan ScheuerHe was not
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Joan Scheuerdoing too well, but
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Joan Scheuermy mother's side of the family was doing quite
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Joan Scheuerwell. They were pretty generous to the next
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Joan Scheuergeneration.
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Joan ScheuerThey certainly made it possible for us to live as well as we did.
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Joan ScheuerWe had a little house in Scarsdale, and
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Joan Scheuer... no
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Joan Scheuerstress.
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Caitlin HaskettWhat do you remember about your first year at Bryn Mawr
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Caitlin Haskettand getting to campus and experiencing college life for the first time?
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Joan ScheuerYeah.
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Joan ScheuerFreshman week was a little like freshman week here.
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Joan ScheuerI just remember we had a lot of fun
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Joan Scheuerbecause we were assigned houses,
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Joan Scheuerand I
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Joan Scheuerlanded in Rhodes.
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Joan ScheuerIt was brand new,
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Joan Scheuerand what was called the smoking room at
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Joan Scheuerthe time downstairs was not yet painted.
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Joan ScheuerThey let us paint it,
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Joan Scheuerso we had a great time
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Joan Scheuerwith that with a few people,
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Joan Scheuerand of course that was all very hilarious way of getting to know
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Joan Scheuerpeople.
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Joan ScheuerThen the first person I ran into was Louisa
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Joan ScheuerHorton, who is a terrifically outgoing person.
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Joan ScheuerShe ended
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Joan Scheuerup as an actress, she had
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Joan Scheuera career in acting,
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Joan Scheuerand at the time she
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Joan Scheuerand I and a
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Joan Scheuerfew others were immediately set to work on
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Joan Scheuera freshman play of some sort.
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Joan ScheuerDo they still have that? Uh-uh (negative).
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Joan ScheuerWell, it's a good idea, because it brings kids together,
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Joan Scheuerand we were very busy with that.
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Joan ScheuerIt was some nonsense that you were supposed
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Joan Scheuerto keep something secret, and our secret, you
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Joan Scheuerwere supposed to have some animal that the other
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Joan Scheuerclass wasn't supposed to find out about.
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Joan ScheuerOur animal was a man,
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Joan Scheuerand we made him into a Western Union boy.
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Joan ScheuerWe had a lot of fun, I remember, but anyway,
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Joan Scheuerit was just a kind of lark.
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Caitlin HaskettHow did you find the man to turn into--
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Joan ScheuerWe rented it.
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Joan ScheuerWe literally engaged a Western Union
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Joan Scheueryoung person, who was baffled but willing,
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Joan Scheuerand instructed him as to what he was supposed to do,
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Joan Scheuerand that it was some kind of a stage and
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Joan Scheuerperformance that Louisa Horton was definitely the star of.
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Caitlin HaskettDid you hide him on campus?
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Joan ScheuerYeah.
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Caitlin HaskettDo you remember where?
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Joan ScheuerNo.
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Joan ScheuerI don't remember those details, but that was part of the fun.
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Joan ScheuerThat way I did get to meet people,
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Joan Scheuerand I didn't worry
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Joan Scheuermuch about who else was
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Joan Scheuergoing to join us.
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Caitlin HaskettYou had a solid group of friends forming from the very beginning?
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Joan ScheuerWell,
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Joan Scheuerin those days you were friendly mostly with the people in
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Joan Scheueryour dorm. Where do you live?
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Caitlin HaskettI lived in Brecken for two years, and Rockefeller last year,
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Joan Scheuerand I'll be in Rhodes next year.
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Joan ScheuerOh.
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Caitlin HaskettYeah. What was it like living in Rhodes? You mentioned that it was new.
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Joan ScheuerWell, we thought it was wonderful, we loved it.
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Joan ScheuerWe had nice
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Joan Scheuernew rooms, it was brand new.
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Joan ScheuerI had a pretty big
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Joan Scheuerroom. My family was pretty indulgent,
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Joan Scheuerand my mother got my lots of clothes, which I didn't need.
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Joan ScheuerThe room was, oh how you
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Joan Scheuerdecorated your room was very important.
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Joan ScheuerIs it still?
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Caitlin HaskettYeah. How did you decorate your room?
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Joan ScheuerI just remember the colors.
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Joan ScheuerI don't remember the furniture was anything special.
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Joan ScheuerIt had green
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Joan Scheuerand orange, and they said in
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Joan Scheuerthe advice
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Joan Scheuerto incoming freshmen to bring a
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Joan Scheuerteapot, I had a teapot.
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Joan ScheuerNever used it much, but that
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Joan Scheuerwas recommended.
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Joan ScheuerI think they made some effort to put
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Joan Scheueryou
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Joan Scheuerin touch with any neighbors you might have in your home environment,
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Joan Scheuerbut that didn't come to much.
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Joan ScheuerAfter that
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Joan Scheuerfreshman week,
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Joan ScheuerI think we just got down to business and started
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Joan Scheuerhaving classes. Yeah.
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Joan ScheuerSo.
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Caitlin HaskettWhat do you remember about academics at Bryn Mawr and the classes that you took?
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Joan ScheuerOh, I do remember, I was interested in economics and
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Joan Scheuerpolitics.
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Joan ScheuerI remember going out to dinner
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Joan Scheuerwith the economics professor, early. A
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Joan Scheuerfew of
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Joan Scheuerus went with him,
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Joan Scheuerand he asked some funny questions like,
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Joan Scheuer"Why are you here?" Which we
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Joan Scheuerthought was pretty self evident, but he didn't
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Joan Scheuerthink in terms of professions. He thought that,
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Joan Scheuerhe didn't realize that we were interested
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Joan Scheuerin what kind of work we would be doing as a
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Joan Scheuerfuture. I know most of the people who
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Joan Scheuerwent to dinner with him
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Joan Scheuerthat night,
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Joan Scheuerwhich I cannot remember who they were,
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Joan Scheuerwere sort of surprised and he was sort of surprised.
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Joan ScheuerHe thought we were just there for finishing school
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Joan Scheueror something, I don't know.
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Caitlin HaskettDo you remember how that dinner with the professor came about?
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Caitlin HaskettWas it--were you in a class with him?
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Joan ScheuerIt was pretty casual, I don't know. There were a bunch of us,
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Joan Scheuerit wasn't that he selected anybody in particular. It
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Joan Scheuerjust seemed very natural,
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Joan Scheueryou go into town and find a coffee
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Joan Scheuershop or something. He was
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Joan Scheuermarried, he had a wife who was given some assistant
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Joan Scheuerprofessorship duties,
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Joan Scheuerlike tutorial duties or workshops
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Joan Scheuerof some kind.
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Joan ScheuerShe was not very good, she couldn't answer questions at all, poor lady.
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Joan ScheuerAt that
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Joan Scheuertime I guess I had sorted out some other people
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Joan Scheueron campus who were interested in the same subjects, but ...
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Joan Scheueroh, I know what happened.
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Joan ScheuerI submitted some articles
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Joan Scheuerto, there was a literary magazine,
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Joan Scheuerand it was a newspaper we called it. I got very
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Joan Scheuerinvolved in that.
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Joan ScheuerIn fact, by the time I was maybe a sophomore,
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Joan ScheuerI was editor of both
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Joan Scheuerof them. I gave a lot of time to it.
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Joan ScheuerDo they still have it?
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Caitlin HaskettYeah. What were your responsibilities as editor?
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Joan ScheuerOh, my big responsibility was to go into the
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Joan Scheuerprinter
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Joan Scheuerand either write the headlines or help set the type.
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Joan ScheuerI got my hands really deep into
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Joan Scheuerthat, and thought it was very
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Joan Scheuerimportant. We chose what articles, what to write about,
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Joan Scheuerand we had quite a good group there from all over
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Joan Scheuerthe campus, not just Rhodes. I had contacts
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Joan Scheuerof friends, like Barbara Coolie. Do you know who she is?
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Joan ScheuerMacNamay family. Yeah,
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Joan Scheuerand others that
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Joan Scheuerwere active. We
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Joan Scheuerthought of things. We had to decide what to write because
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Joan Scheuerwhat is there to write? But we
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Joan Scheuerdid invent a lot of things.
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Caitlin HaskettWhat kind of things did you write about?
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Joan ScheuerWell, one time we
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Joan Scheuercrashed the art museum in Marion
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Joan Scheuerthat didn't allow students.
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Joan ScheuerThen we had to get in surreptitiously, and we got Barbara
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Joan ScheuerCoolie in. We wrote it up.
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Joan ScheuerOh, and then what happened was Pearl Harbor,
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Joan Scheuerand Vincent Sheen was giving a speech. He
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Joan Scheuerwas a well known journalist of the period,
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Joan Scheuerand he was invited to dinner before his
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Joan Scheuertalk at this park. She was the president,
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Joan Scheuerand so I was invited,
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Joan Scheuerand a few other students.
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Joan ScheuerHe told the whole assembly that the Navy
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Joan Scheuerhad been practically knocked out at
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Joan ScheuerPearl Harbor. This was a huge scoop,
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Joan Scheuerso we published this in great glee,
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Joan Scheuerand claimed to have beaten the
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Joan ScheuerPhiladelphia papers at that.
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Joan ScheuerAlso I had got to drive him back to town or
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Joan Scheuersomething. Anyway, it was a big excitement about Pearl Harbor.
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Joan ScheuerThen we had to go to work on the war effort,
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Joan Scheuerso we had plenty to write about. It
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Joan Scheuerwas interesting times.
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Caitlin HaskettWhat do you remember about the affects of the war on campus
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Caitlin Haskettlife?
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Joan ScheuerThe first thing that happened was the
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Joan Scheuerprofessors started leaving.
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Joan ScheuerThe first to leave was the art professor,
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Joan Scheuerbecause he knew Japanese. Then
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Joan Scheuerother people, including my,
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Joan Scheuerwell this was four years.
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Joan ScheuerThis was my
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Joan Scheuersenior year. How are we jumping so
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Joan Scheuerfast to senior year? '41, because I went and
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Joan Scheuerstarted at '38.
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Caitlin HaskettIt's okay, we can jump around a little bit.
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Joan ScheuerYeah.
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Caitlin HaskettYou were talking about professors who left.
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Joan ScheuerYeah. My economics professor, Miss
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Joan ScheuerNorthrup, left without saying anything,
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Joan Scheuergiving anybody any addresses or
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Joan Scheuerreading my honor's thesis
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Joan Scheueror commenting. That went like,
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Joan Scheuernobody ever read it. When
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Joan ScheuerI later
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Joan Scheuerwanted to apply to law school,
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Joan ScheuerI could not find her. I had
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Joan Scheuerabsolutely no recommendations about what I had achieved
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Joan Scheueras a student.
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Joan ScheuerI don't think I'll ever
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Joan Scheuerforgive her for that.
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Joan ScheuerYeah, a lot changed because we lost several good professors.
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Joan ScheuerThen things changed until we graduated and we
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Joan Scheuerfound out
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Joan Scheuerall of a sudden we could get
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Joan Scheuerjobs right away,
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Joan Scheuerbecause the men had all been drafted or were subject to the
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Joan Scheuerdraft. By that time people's boyfriends and brothers were being drafted.
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Joan ScheuerIt was pretty stressful for
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Joan Scheuermany people.
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Caitlin HaskettThe war really only influenced the end of your time at Bryn Mawr?
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Caitlin HaskettDo you remember if people talked about or
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Caitlin Haskettwere worried about what was happening before Pearl Harbor and the US joined?
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Joan ScheuerYeah.
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Joan ScheuerThey were very worried.
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Joan ScheuerIt was very stressful,
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Joan Scheuerand many people were very personally
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Joan Scheuerengaged because it affected everyone.
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Joan ScheuerWe had a real draft, it didn't
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Joan Scheuerjust mean that, the way
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Joan Scheuerit is now, so voluntary army. That many people
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Joan Scheuerinvolved, but almost everybody. Oh
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Joan Scheuerand the day that Pearl Harbor
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Joan Scheuerhappened, my classmate who
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Joan Scheuerlived in the same floor was listening
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Joan Scheuerto the Philharmonic as I was in my room,
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Joan Scheuershe's listening in her room.
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Joan ScheuerIt's announced that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor.
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Joan ScheuerThe Philharmonic is interrupted,
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Joan Scheuershe stepped out of her apartment,
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Joan ScheuerI stepped out of my apartment.
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Joan ScheuerHer father was an admiral in the Navy at Pearl
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Joan ScheuerHarbor, and she was engaged to some young man on the ship.
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Joan ScheuerThat was a very tense time.
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Joan ScheuerFor a week or 10 days, she didn't hear.
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Joan ScheuerThat woman is Ellen Stone, who is well
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Joan Scheuerknown philosopher today,
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Joan Scheuerand married Professor
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Joan ScheuerWeiss, the professor of philosophy.
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Joan ScheuerQuite dramatic stories there.
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Joan ScheuerWe were thoroughly shocked, shaken.
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Joan ScheuerThat
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Joan Scheuerwent on, well I guess that was towards the end,
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Joan Scheuerbut at campus from the moment that the war
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Joan Scheuerreally took a turn, I think everybody
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Joan Scheuerwas involved. Not much time for
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Joan Scheuerreligion.
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Caitlin HaskettNo. Yeah,
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Caitlin HaskettI want to shift gears a little bit and actually ask about religion.
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Caitlin HaskettWhat was it like being Jewish on campus?
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Caitlin HaskettDid you know other Jewish students at all or anything like that?
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Joan ScheuerThere were not too many,
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Joan Scheuerbut I knew who they were and, uh,
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Joan Scheuerthere was no gathering place or
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Joan Scheuerservices that were held or anything
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Joan Scheuerwithin sight that I can remember. Uh,
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Joan Scheuerbut I had a close friend who came from Philadelphia who was Jewish.
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Joan ScheuerSo, uh, we,
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Joan Scheuerso I, she either we had,
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Joan ScheuerOh, and the
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Joan Scheuerboy was going out to the verse when I was at freshmen
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Joan Scheuerwas not Jewish. Uh,
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Joan Scheuerhe was a scientist,
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Joan Scheueruh,
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Joan Scheuerw but one thing did happen.
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Joan ScheuerThere was a student named Goldberg
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Joan Scheuerand she asked me
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Joan Scheuerto go with her to some, uh,
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Joan Scheuerevent somewhere where there were Jewish
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Joan Scheuerboys, some sort of a school or something like that.
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Joan ScheuerAnd we, and I said, yes, I would have went.
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Joan ScheuerAnd it was horrendous for both of us.
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Joan ScheuerCause these boys hadn't seen girls.
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Joan ScheuerThey didn't know how to treat the girls. They were
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Joan Scheuervery young, it was a disaster
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Joan Scheuerthat wasn't helpful, but that was a horrible experience.
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Joan ScheuerUh,
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Joan ScheuerI mean they really chased.
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Joan ScheuerIt was very unfortunate. Did
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Joan ScheuerI meet
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Joan Scheuerany Jewish boys there?
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Joan ScheuerNo. Haverford,
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Joan ScheuerI didn't see much of Haverford boys,
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Joan Scheuerbut some people did.
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Joan ScheuerLater my daughter went to Bryn Mawr and she has a whole
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Joan Scheuergroup
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Joan Scheuerof
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Joan ScheuerHaverford friends. I don't know that
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Joan Scheuerthere's a Jewish temple or ...
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Caitlin HaskettI don't, I'm not sure.
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Joan ScheuerA place, there was something.
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Caitlin HaskettI'm not sure if there was one around when you would've been at Bryn Mawr.
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Caitlin HaskettThere's a couple on the main line now though. You
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Caitlin Haskettmentioned your friend who was from Philadelphia who was Jewish.
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Caitlin HaskettDid she ever go back into the city for
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Caitlin Haskettservices or anything like that? No?
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Joan ScheuerNo.
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Caitlin HaskettHow did you get to know her?
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Joan ScheuerI can't
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Joan Scheuerremember. I don't really remember.
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Caitlin HaskettWhat was she like?
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Joan ScheuerUh, She was interested
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Joan Scheuerin the same things I was,
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Joan ScheuerI thought she was not,
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Joan ScheuerI can't remember what she majored in but it wasn't
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Joan Scheuereconomics,
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Joan Scheuerbecause people who majored in that I can count
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Joan Scheueron my left hand, four
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Joan Scheuerpeople was all. Oh,
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Joan ScheuerI know what happened.
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Joan ScheuerDuring the summer, four of
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Joan Scheuerus went to work for the government in
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Joan ScheuerWashington DC.
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Joan ScheuerWe all were loaned a house
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Joan Scheuerin Washington by a friendly
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Joan ScheuerBryn Mawr alumni,
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Joan Scheuerand it was beautiful,
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Joan Scheuerand we had a very nice time. One woman
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Joan Scheuerhad a blind date,
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Joan Scheuerand he walked in. Oh,
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Joan Scheuershe was such a good looking, beautiful girl.
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Joan ScheuerHe walked in and I was in the living room,
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Joan Scheuerand he asked where she was.
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Joan ScheuerI just knew they were going to end
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Joan Scheuerup getting married, they did.
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Joan ScheuerIt was nice time, that was Margie McGrath. Not Jewish,
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Joan Scheuernobody was Jewish in that group
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Joan Scheuerof economists.
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Caitlin HaskettWhat about people in Rhodes?
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Caitlin HaskettDid you have any friends in the dorm who were Jewish?
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Joan ScheuerWell, Ellen Stone was not Jewish.
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Joan ScheuerHer father was an admiral
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Joan ScheuerUm,
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Joan ScheuerShe ended up the top of her class.
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Joan ScheuerShe had brilliant red hair.
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Joan ScheuerWho else was my friend in the dorm? I
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Joan Scheuerdon't know. I wouldn't have searched around for them necessarily,
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Joan Scheuerbut there weren't so many Jewish students
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Joan Scheuerat the whole college.
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Caitlin HaskettYeah.
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Joan ScheuerIt's changed.
-
Caitlin HaskettDid you feel like religion factored into the way that you
-
Caitlin Haskettinteracted with other people at Bryn Mawr even if you weren't seeking out
-
Caitlin HaskettJewish friends?
-
Joan ScheuerWell, you're getting at something. There was a little,
-
Joan ScheuerI felt a little tension about the people
-
Joan ScheuerI admired and who were working on the newspaper
-
Joan Scheuerwhen I got there. Some of them were clearly ...
-
Joan Scheuerthey clearly had a problem with
-
Joan Scheuermy being Jewish.
-
Joan ScheuerWhich I put down to social
-
Joan Scheuersnobbery, they were very old family, waspy people.
-
Joan ScheuerI did notice that, but I didn't
-
Joan Scheuerget the idea that there was
-
Joan Scheuera lot of antisemitism there. We were so protected from it.
-
Caitlin HaskettSort of in a bubble on campus.
-
Joan ScheuerYeah. Everywhere, yeah.
-
Caitlin HaskettTell me a little bit more about what you experienced from the older
-
Caitlin Haskettpeople on the college news. Yeah, what was that like?
-
Joan ScheuerI
-
Joan Scheuerwas curious about them.
-
Joan ScheuerThis woman would talk about her social standing
-
Joan Scheuerand her family history,
-
Joan Scheuermainly her family history.
-
Joan ScheuerShe'd make it a little too clear that I
-
Joan Scheuercould never aspire to anything like that.
-
Joan ScheuerI don't
-
Joan Scheuerknow. You sniff
-
Joan Scheuerit out, I can tell you, but
-
Joan Scheuershe was the only person I noticed that.
-
Joan ScheuerI don't think there's so many people like that.
-
Caitlin HaskettDid you ever discuss religion with any of your friends on campus?
-
Joan ScheuerProbably, I don't
-
Joan Scheuerremember making an issue of it because oh well.
-
Joan ScheuerIt's the sort of thing we talk about. I'm
-
Joan Scheuertrying to
-
Joan Scheuerthink about some of the
-
Joan Scheuerpeople as
-
Joan ScheuerI got a little older, because I was more interested,
-
Joan ScheuerI was so interested in this, getting the college news
-
Joan Scheuerout and the other things I did,
-
Joan ScheuerI didn't worry about religion.
-
Joan ScheuerWe talked about philosophy.
-
Joan ScheuerWe talked philosophy and we had good discussions about same
-
Joan Scheuersort of,
-
Joan Scheuerwho am I
-
Joan Scheuerdiscussions
-
Joan Scheuerone does have.
-
Joan ScheuerPaul Weiss, the philosophy teacher,
-
Joan Scheuerwas Jewish.
-
Joan ScheuerHe and his wife were
-
Joan Scheuerpretty hospitable, and they'd have people in their home, invite us and others.
-
Joan ScheuerI'm sure he didn't pick out the Jewish
-
Joan Scheuerstudents, but I think the Jewish students were very comfortable with him.
-
Joan ScheuerOne's relationship with the professors was
-
Joan Scheuervery
-
Joan Scheuerimportant when I was there, because they did
-
Joan Scheueropen their homes and they did develop
-
Joan Scheuerindividual personal
-
Joan Scheuerrelationships with students. Is that still true?
-
Caitlin HaskettNot that I've experienced so much.
-
Caitlin HaskettWho were some of the professors that you became close with?
-
Joan ScheuerWell, there's Paul Weiss, then
-
Joan Scheuerthere was a German professor who is not Jewish.
-
Joan ScheuerThey were very warm. There
-
Joan Scheuerwas a woman that was the daughter of a Jewish
-
Joan Scheuerscholar who Bryn Mawr invited to come to teach.
-
Joan ScheuerThe Jewish scholar died,
-
Joan Scheuerher name was Ruth Fiesel.
-
Joan ScheuerF-I-E-S-E-L, I think. This was a
-
Joan Scheuertragedy for that girl.
-
Joan ScheuerShe was so needy after the death of her
-
Joan Scheuermother. She was,
-
Joan Scheuerwe all tried to help her but she
-
Joan Scheuernever really ...
-
Joan ScheuerI guess she did finally get back readjusted and back
-
Joan Scheuerto finding
-
Joan Scheuerout who she herself was, but there were
-
Joan Scheuerepisodes like that,
-
Joan Scheuerthat you could say we're products of the
-
Joan Scheuerwar. It was really terrible.
-
Caitlin HasketWas Ruth a classmate of yours?
-
Joan ScheuerYes. Her whole story I was pretty
-
Joan Scheuerclose to.
-
Caitlin HaskettWhat was she like?
-
Joan ScheuerIt took her several years to find out,
-
Joan Scheuerto mature. She was devastated. I
-
Joan Scheuerdon't blame her, she was totally lost in every way.
-
Joan ScheuerShe didn't have a surrounding family,
-
Joan Scheuerand she had to
-
Joan Scheueradopt really a new country.
-
Joan ScheuerThey came from Germany, so that was a Jewish drama. Can
-
Joan ScheuerI
-
Joan Scheuerthink of any others?
-
Joan ScheuerOh, and by the way, Louisa Horton my freshman
-
Joan Scheuerassociate didn't last.
-
Joan ScheuerShe left after the first year,
-
Joan Scheuerand came to New York to be an actress.
-
Caitlin HaskettIs that why she left?
-
Joan ScheuerYeah. She
-
Joan Scheuerdid pretty well. She was right. She did the right thing.
-
Joan ScheuerTo me, I thought it was an enormous
-
Joan Scheuerleap, because
-
Joan ScheuerI thought so much about the things
-
Joan Scheuerwe were learning and finding ourselves.
-
Joan ScheuerShe already knew herself.
-
Caitlin HaskettIt's impressive at a young age.
-
Joan ScheuerYeah.
-
Caitlin HaskettShifting gears a little bit,
-
Caitlin Haskettwhat do you remember about your social life while you were at Bryn Mawr?
-
Joan ScheuerWhat kind of things did you get up to with your friends?
-
Joan ScheuerWell, if you talk about dating-.
-
Caitlin HaskettSure.
-
Joan Scheuer... as I said,
-
Joan Scheuermy first year I went out with
-
Joan Scheuerthis young man who was I think at Penn.
-
Joan ScheuerI did go to some of the fraternity things,
-
Joan Scheuerand they were very segregated. I
-
Joan Scheuerdidn't like that much.
-
Caitlin HaskettBecause they were segregated or for other reasons?
-
Joan ScheuerI'm not sure.
-
Joan ScheuerMaybe I didn't like the people in the fraternities,
-
Joan Scheueror the fraternity I
-
Joan Scheuerwas at, visiting,
-
Joan Scheuerat the dance or whatever it was.
-
Caitlin HaskettWhat about after your freshman year?
-
Caitlin HaskettDid you continue to date while you were at Bryn Mawr?
-
Joan ScheuerYeah,
-
Joan Scheuerbut not ...
-
Joan Scheueroh in
-
Joan Scheuerthe summer, because we had this summer in Washington,
-
Joan ScheuerI had some dates. It was
-
Joan Scheuerthat Navy guy
-
Joan ScheuerI
-
Joan Scheuerwent out with. Not Jewish, I don't know.
-
Joan ScheuerI had some dates but not
-
Joan Scheuera real social ...I
-
Joan Scheuerwonder if
-
Joan ScheuerI went home at all. It wasn't, I must have.
-
Joan ScheuerI must have gone home,
-
Joan Scheuerand then at home in
-
Joan ScheuerScarsdale, I had a
-
Joan Scheuerpretty extensive social life
-
Joan Scheuerwith,
-
Joan Scheuerthere was a temple and there was a Jewish
-
Joan Scheuerdancing
-
Joan Scheuerschool where they arranged dances
-
Joan Scheuerso we did have that very important,
-
Joan Scheuerbig dances. We dressed up and got into a long dress,
-
Joan Scheuerand I had a whole group
-
Joan Scheuerof young men
-
Joan Scheuerthere, one of which I was
-
Joan Scheuervery close to for a number of years.
-
Joan ScheuerI guess that was
-
Joan Scheuerthe real social piece of it.
-
Caitlin HaskettYou think,
-
Caitlin Haskettdo you remember going home during the school year or just on breaks do you
-
Caitlin Haskettthink?
-
Joan ScheuerWell, what does that mean, on breaks?
-
Caitlin HaskettDuring spring break or winter break.
-
Joan ScheuerYeah, sure.
-
Joan ScheuerThose were when you would have the dances and the
-
Joan Scheuerother things, and see that group of people, and
-
Joan Scheueryoung men and women. Women too,
-
Joan Scheuerhad lots of friends there.
-
Caitlin HaskettYeah.
-
Joan ScheuerThat was
-
Joan Scheuermuch more specifically Jewish. My parents,
-
Joan Scheuerthey would be the sons and daughters
-
Joan Scheuerof my parents' friends, mostly.
-
Caitlin HaskettDid you feel like it was a big change from the community you had at
-
Caitlin HaskettBryn Mawr? Yeah,
-
Caitlin Haskettwhat was the similarities and differences between the community of friends you
-
Caitlin Hasketthad in Scarsdale and the friends you had at Bryn Mawr?
-
Joan ScheuerWell, the
-
Joan Scheuerfriends I had at Bryn Mawr were not Jewish and for the most part the friends I
-
Joan Scheuerhad at Scarsdale were all
-
Joan ScheuerJewish.
-
Caitlin HaskettWould you talk about different things or do different things together?
-
Caitlin HaskettAnything like that?
-
Joan ScheuerNothing different. People are the same.
-
Caitlin HaskettFair enough, I was just curious.
-
Joan ScheuerYeah.
-
Caitlin HaskettAll right. Do you remember when you were a senior,
-
Caitlin Haskettapproaching the end of your time at Bryn Mawr,
-
Caitlin Haskettwhat were your expectations for what you were going to do after you graduated?
-
Joan ScheuerI think I thought I was go to law school.
-
Joan ScheuerThis was in the back of my mind, I think.
-
Joan ScheuerI know it
-
Joan Scheuerwas later, but also I wanted to
-
Joan Scheuerwork with the union movement,
-
Joan Scheuerwhich I did. Yeah.
-
Caitlin HaskettHow did that,
-
Caitlin Haskettwanting to go to law school or work with the unions compare to what your
-
Caitlin Haskettclassmates wanted to do? Do you know?
-
Joan ScheuerIt depends which classmates. Some of
-
Joan Scheuerthem were in the same track,
-
Joan Scheuerand others not.
-
Joan ScheuerWhen we got the offer to work for the government when the war started,
-
Joan Scheuerthat became pretty clear. Everybody wanted to work for the war,
-
Joan Scheuerand I took a civil service exam. Right away, jobs
-
Joan Scheueropened up because I was on the civil service list.
-
Joan ScheuerI was amazed,
-
Joan Scheuerwe were all amazed that we could get jobs right away,
-
Joan Scheuerbecause we were Depression kids.
-
Caitlin HaskettWhat kind of work did you do in the civil service after Bryn Mawr?
-
Joan ScheuerWhen the war started,
-
Joan ScheuerI worked for the War Production Board.
-
Joan ScheuerI got a job in an office where we were allocating scarce
-
Joan Scheuermaterials, steel, aluminum, and one
-
Joan Scheuerother. I
-
Joan Scheuergot a
-
Joan Scheuerjob right away, and then I met people there.
-
Caitlin HaskettAfter Bryn Mawr,
-
Caitlin Haskettyou started working and then you mentioned you went to law school eventually.
-
Joan ScheuerI didn't.
-
Caitlin HaskettYou didn't? You wanted to but you never did?
-
Joan ScheuerNo. I didn't go to law school, I am not a lawyer.
-
Joan ScheuerI worked for a
-
Joan Scheuerunion during the war because
-
Joan Scheuerthe unions had a no strike
-
Joan Scheuerpledge during World War II
-
Joan Scheuerin the beginning. They had a lot of paperwork, and they were overwhelmed.
-
Joan ScheuerI went to Chicago and started working with
-
Joan Scheuera guy who was helping a union.
-
Joan ScheuerThat's how I started working for a
-
Joan Scheuerunion, or the union. Yeah. I worked for more than one.
-
Caitlin HaskettI know this is a big question,
-
Caitlin Haskettbut maybe we can fully shift gears and talk about just what your
-
Caitlin Haskettlife has been like since you graduated.
-
Caitlin HaskettYou've talked a little bit about the beginnings of your career and working for
-
Caitlin Haskettthe union,
-
Caitlin Haskettbut if there's more you want to share about that or just anywhere your life has
-
Caitlin Haskettgone.
-
Joan ScheuerWhat happened finally,
-
Joan ScheuerI was working in Chicago,
-
Joan Scheuerand that was really work.
-
Joan ScheuerFinally I realized I should
-
Joan Scheuergo home
-
Joan Scheuerto mommy. Why? Because ... anyhow,
-
Joan ScheuerI decided enough of this.
-
Joan ScheuerI'm going
-
Joan Scheuerto go home. I can't remember exactly,
-
Joan Scheuersomething happened in the war,
-
Joan Scheuerlike it had to do with a change. Peace came.
-
Joan ScheuerThat was basically the idea, so I
-
Joan Scheuerwent back
-
Joan Scheuerto Scarsdale,
-
Joan Scheuerbut it wasn't Scarsdale anymore. The family had moved to
-
Joan ScheuerManhattan, and so I ended up where
-
Joan Scheuermy parents were in an apartment
-
Joan Scheuerwhere they barely had room for me.
-
Joan ScheuerSummer came, and my sister
-
Joan Scheuerand I were invited to
-
Joan Scheuerthe country club
-
Joan ScheuerSaturday by a friend of my
-
Joan Scheuermother's,
-
Joan Scheuerand we drove down from where we were spending the summer.
-
Joan ScheuerThat's how
-
Joan ScheuerI met my husband.
-
Caitlin HaskettHe just happened to be at the country club that day too?
-
Joan ScheuerNo. It was a party for him, and my mother,
-
Joan Scheuerthis is the truth of it.
-
Joan ScheuerMy mother had, she went to Barnard.
-
Joan ScheuerThey were in the
-
Joan Scheuersame class at the college, and they knew each other,
-
Joan Scheuerso they
-
Joan Scheuerknew there were a couple.
-
Joan ScheuerOne family had boys and one family had girls,
-
Joan Scheuerwe were the girls.
-
Joan ScheuerMy sister and I came down to this country club where the party
-
Joan Scheuerwas being given for my husband.
-
Joan ScheuerI think it was his birthday, husband to be. That's how we met.
-
Joan ScheuerI'm going to have to go to the bathroom, I'll be right back.
-
Caitlin HaskettYou mentioned meeting your husband and then you just said that your marriage is
-
Caitlin Hasketta main focus in your life.
-
Joan ScheuerWell, I said the main part,
-
Joan Scheuerbut I meant not chronologically.
-
Joan ScheuerI spent most of my years
-
Joan Scheueras a married wife and mother.
-
Joan ScheuerNow I'm a great-grandmother. Yeah.
-
Joan ScheuerI have eight great-grandchildren
-
Joan Scheuerand 12 grandchildren,
-
Joan Scheuersomething like that. It's quite wonderful.
-
Caitlin HaskettYou first had to have children to have grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
-
Caitlin HaskettDid you raise your children in New York? Yeah,
-
Caitlin Haskettdid you raise your children in New York?
-
Joan ScheuerWell, no.
-
Joan ScheuerWe lived most of our married life in a suburb called
-
Joan ScheuerLarchmont, which is about 20 miles
-
Joan Scheuerfrom here. It's on a large
-
Joan Scheuerbody of water, the Long Island Sound,
-
Joan Scheuerso that my husband was a real boat
-
Joan Scheuerlover. That became a big part of my life,
-
Joan Scheuerand my children's lives.
-
Joan ScheuerI've had some tragedy,
-
Joan ScheuerI lost my eldest son when he was a grown man,
-
Joan Scheuerand had himself three children,
-
Joan Scheuerand was a very important part of our lives.
-
Joan ScheuerThat was sad episode
-
Joan Scheuerand didn't go away, doesn't go away.
-
Joan ScheuerOtherwise
-
Joan Scheuerit's pretty fascinating watching everybody
-
Joan Scheuergrow up, and
-
Joan Scheuerit goes by very fast.
-
Joan ScheuerMy husband, when we met at that party,
-
Joan Scheuerlast seen at the party at the club, he
-
Joan Scheuerwas much more Jewish than I.
-
Joan ScheuerIn fact, he became quite active.
-
Joan ScheuerHe was president of the Board of the
-
Joan ScheuerHebrew Union College, which trains rabbis.
-
Joan ScheuerWe had pretty active life in that circle.
-
Joan ScheuerI know a lot of rabbis now. He
-
Joan Scheuerwas also always
-
Joan Scheuersuch an avid boater that we owned a large sailboat,
-
Joan Scheuerand sailed on it every
-
Joan Scheuersummer with our children, with
-
Joan Scheuerour friends. You could sleep on the boat,
-
Joan Scheuerit's a big thing. We managed it ourselves,
-
Joan ScheuerI had to learn to do that.
-
Joan ScheuerI learned to love it, and we went once
-
Joan Scheuerall the way up to Canada with it. We brought our
-
Joan Scheuerfamily in and our kids. Most of my
-
Joan Scheuerchildren liked to sail, but one in particular never did.
-
Joan ScheuerHe's the one who,
-
Joan Scheuerhe lives nearby me and I see a lot of him now. It's been very
-
Joan Scheuergratifying, I've enjoyed the present,
-
Joan Scheuerwhich still keeps me close
-
Joan Scheuerto them. I'm very lucky.
-
Caitlin HaskettDid you have any career after you met your husband?
-
Joan ScheuerOh yeah. I did,
-
Joan Scheuerbut what happened was I took ...
-
Joan Scheuerin the '70's, let's see,
-
Joan ScheuerI got a doctorate, a PhD. That
-
Joan Scheuerimmediately opened some doors,
-
Joan Scheuerand I began working right away
-
Joan Scheuerwhen I got the degree with the
-
Joan ScheuerNew York City Board of Education as
-
Joan Scheuera revenue person who studied the way the state was funding the schools,
-
Joan Scheuerthe way the federal
-
Joan Scheuergovernment, very little money was coming in, and the city.
-
Joan ScheuerHow the schools in the city were supported.
-
Joan ScheuerI worked at the Board of Education here for 10 years,
-
Joan Scheuerwhich was too long. I should not have worked so
-
Joan Scheuerlong.
-
Caitlin HaskettWhy not?
-
Joan ScheuerBecause I was in sort of a rut. Then I quit that
-
Joan Scheuerand
-
Joan ScheuerI began working with groups of people who were leaders
-
Joan Scheuerof organizations that got together frequently.
-
Joan ScheuerI was their financial advisor
-
Joan Scheuerfor another long set of years,
-
Joan Scheuerso that was quite fruitful and very nice people
-
Joan Scheuerthere.
-
Joan ScheuerThat's what I did in between there and here. Still
-
Joan Scheuerhave a lot of friends, those
-
Joan Scheuerjobs people mix Jewish
-
Joan Scheuerand not Jewish. It's been
-
Joan Scheuera very happy life. I'm very lucky.
-
Caitlin HaskettWhat kinds of things do you spend your time on nowadays?
-
Joan ScheuerWell, here we are in this retirement community, it's another community.
-
Joan ScheuerIt's a lot like first week in college,
-
Joan Scheueryou get to know the people, you sort them out.
-
Joan ScheuerHere there are a lot of people who are not really well
-
Joan Scheuerin one form or another. That leaves the
-
Joan Scheuerpeople who are well who all kind of
-
Joan Scheuerknow who they are,
-
Joan Scheuerand after you've sorted that out,
-
Joan Scheuerwhat we do here, the biggest thing is they
-
Joan Scheuerhave a lot of activities. They even have things like figure drawing.
-
Joan ScheuerI do a lot of art.
-
Joan ScheuerI didn't tell you about that. I've always had that hobby
-
Joan Scheueror interest. That's my picture,
-
Joan ScheuerI have some other pictures that are up.
-
Joan ScheuerThere are activities here,
-
Joan Scheuerthey have a lot of exercise which I like,
-
Joan Scheuerso keep moving.
-
Joan ScheuerI do something active every day if I can.
-
Caitlin HaskettThat's good.
-
Joan ScheuerThen we do things, and they have lectures.
-
Joan ScheuerThey have jewelry making,
-
Joan Scheuerwe did some, I liked that. We have some people
-
Joan Scheuerlike to have clay,
-
Joan Scheuerthey really try to get people to use their hands, their brains,
-
Joan Scheuerand whatever they have left. Dinner is very important, every
-
Joan Scheuernight you
-
Joan Scheuerhave to arrange your dinner especially so you have some
-
Joan Scheuersocial demands.
-
Caitlin HaskettThere's no eating in your apartment by yourself?
-
Joan ScheuerYou can,
-
Joan Scheuerbut they try to get people to make arrangements.
-
Joan ScheuerThey
-
Joan Scheuerhave set up the tables in the dining room for
-
Joan Scheuerfour. I think that is by the design,
-
Joan ScheuerI think they know what they're doing here, so that people have to
-
Joan Scheuerpay attention and arrange dinner.
-
Joan ScheuerThat takes half the day.
-
Joan ScheuerThey have the regular exercise programs,
-
Joan Scheuerand they managed
-
Joan Scheuerto bring some lecturers here. Somebody,
-
Joan Scheuerthere's a lady who
-
Joan Scheuerdoes wonderful talks on opera and classical
-
Joan Scheuermusic that Preston Twanley,
-
Joan Scheuerhe used to do
-
Joan Scheuerit for QXR. He was here last night,
-
Joan Scheuerand movies every night so you
-
Joan Scheuercan ...
-
Caitlin HaskettYeah. Sounds like a lot of interesting stuff.
-
Joan ScheuerThat's the idea, they keep people to
-
Joan Scheuertheir best ability occupied.
-
Caitlin HaskettYeah. I realized,
-
Caitlin HaskettI never asked you about traditions while you were at Bryn Mawr.
-
Caitlin HaskettWhat do you remember about traditions at Bryn Mawr?
-
Caitlin HaskettI know this is a change of topic.
-
Joan ScheuerWell, I did certainly remember Lantern Night and May
-
Joan ScheuerDay.
-
Joan ScheuerThose stand out. Are there others?
-
Caitlin HaskettYeah, parade night.
-
Joan ScheuerDon't remember that. Don't think we had it.
-
Caitlin HaskettDid you have a favorite tradition between Lantern Night and May Day?
-
Joan ScheuerNo, they're very different but I liked them, and I ended up there.
-
Caitlin HaskettOh yeah.
-
Joan ScheuerI didn't get it until a few years ago.
-
Joan ScheuerI don't know what happened to the original lantern,
-
Joan Scheuerbut a few years ago,
-
Joan Scheuerit was my 75th
-
Joan Scheuerreunion, and my daughter had her 25th reunion.
-
Joan ScheuerWe decided to go down there,
-
Joan Scheuerand they were very receptive, and they were wonderful.
-
Joan ScheuerIs Kim ... who
-
Joan Scheueris the president of Bryn Mawr now?
-
Caitlin HaskettKim Cassidy.
-
Joan ScheuerKim Cassidy, yeah. Well,
-
Joan Scheuershe was very outgoing and friendly to
-
Joan Scheuerus. We had
-
Joan Scheuera wonderful reception.
-
Joan ScheuerThere was one other person in
-
Joan Scheuermy year who graduated the same
-
Joan Scheueryear I did. With her, her name is Christine.
-
Joan Scheuerso we all ... don't ask me her last name, I've forgotten.
-
Caitlin HaskettOkay.
-
Joan ScheuerSo We had a great time. They presented
-
Joan Scheuerme with that lantern.
-
Caitlin HaskettThat's lovely.
-
Joan ScheuerI'm very happy to have that,
-
Joan Scheuerso I do care about traditions.
-
Caitlin HaskettYeah. What do you remember about getting your lantern,
-
Caitlin Haskettthe first lantern initially when you were a first year at Bryn Mawr?
-
Joan ScheuerVery little. I don't remember it,
-
Joan Scheuerit seems I lost it so I don't know where
-
Joan Scheuerit is,
-
Joan Scheuerbut they replaced it.
-
Joan ScheuerI do remember the business about May Day
-
Joan Scheuerwith the hoops, the seniors were supposed to give you, leave at your door.
-
Joan ScheuerDo they still do that?
-
Caitlin HaskettYeah.
-
Joan ScheuerI remember that, yeah.
-
Caitlin HaskettDo you remember who left you a hoop?
-
Joan ScheuerYeah, I did get several, but I
-
Joan Scheuerdon't know
-
Joan Scheuerthat I remember who.
-
Joan ScheuerI had some friends in the senior class, but I've forgotten their names.
-
Caitlin HaskettWhat else do you remember about May Day?
-
Joan ScheuerIt's quite joyous. Oh,
-
Joan ScheuerI remember W. H.
-
Joan ScheuerOrden was hanging around our campus
-
Joan Scheuerone May Day and just ...
-
Joan Scheuertrying not to be noticed or noticed,
-
Joan Scheuersort of hiding against columns.
-
Joan ScheuerI do remember that, watching
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Joan ScheuerMay Day.
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Caitlin HaskettYeah. I guess people like to come for the spectacle.
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Joan ScheuerIt's a spectacle.
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Caitlin HaskettYeah.
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Joan ScheuerA great
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Joan Scheuerchance to preserve those crazy
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Joan Scheuermoments.
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Joan ScheuerIt still goes on, that's good.
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Caitlin HaskettYeah. To wrap up a little bit, I have two more questions.
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Caitlin HaskettThe first is what sort of influence do you the
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Caitlin HaskettBryn Mawr has had on your life?
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Caitlin HaskettOr do you think it has had any influence?
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Joan ScheuerI think it did encourage a kind
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Joan Scheuerof rigor,
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Joan Scheuerand I think that its graduates
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Joan Scheuerknow the value of
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Joan Scheuerhard work and demand hard work. As for
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Joan Scheuerthe
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Joan Scheuersubject matter opening up, I didn't get much out of it.
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Joan ScheuerAs an economist,
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Joan ScheuerI got some of the language but I'm not
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Joan Scheuera real economist. Had to be
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Joan Scheuera school of finance economist.
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Joan ScheuerMaybe I never wanted
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Joan Scheuerto be. I'm not mathematical enough nowadays. I
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Joan Scheuerappreciate what I got out
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Joan Scheuerof Bryn Mawr,
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Joan Scheuerand when we went back, I
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Joan Scheuerwas blown away by how beautiful it is.
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Joan ScheuerIt's more beautiful than ever it was.
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Caitlin HaskettYeah. It's
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Caitlin Hasketta gorgeous place.
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Joan ScheuerYeah.
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Caitlin HaskettWhat do you think,
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Caitlin Haskettif you can remember yourself when you were a senior at Bryn Mawr getting ready
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Caitlin Haskettto graduate,
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Caitlin Haskettwhat do you think that version of yourself would be surprised to know about
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Caitlin Haskettthe life that you've led since then?
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Joan ScheuerWell, speaking of that,
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Joan Scheuersuddenly I remember being on the lawn at graduation
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Joan Scheuerwith this Ellen Stone.
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Joan ScheuerShe said something to
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Joan Scheuerme like, "Did you ever realize
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Joan Scheuerthat your name makes you sound
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Joan ScheuerJewish?" My maiden name was Gross.
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Joan ScheuerIt suddenly came to
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Joan Scheuerme that she thought I was not Jewish,
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Joan Scheuerand didn't ever know, she got me a
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Joan Scheuerlittle wrong maybe. That was a funny conversation,
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Joan Scheuerat graduation.
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Caitlin HaskettWhere did that conversation go from there after she said that?
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Joan ScheuerNowhere. We were just standing with our families sort of
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Joan Scheuerawkwardly, and maybe getting ready to
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Joan Scheuergo to some event or parade or march
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Joan Scheueror play with hoops, I
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Joan Scheuerdon't remember that,
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Joan Scheuerbut that kind of shocked me.
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Caitlin HaskettYeah.
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Joan ScheuerIt suggested that people didn't know I was Jewish,
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Joan Scheuerand maybe they would've acted differently.
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Caitlin HaskettMaybe.
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Joan ScheuerYeah.
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Joan ScheuerAre there many more Jewish students there now?
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Caitlin HaskettI think it's about 12% to 20%
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Caitlin HaskettJewish students now.
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Joan ScheuerThat's a lot more than it was.
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Caitlin HaskettYeah. All right. Before we finish then turn off the recorder,
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Caitlin Haskettis there anything else you want to add in to this recording?
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Joan ScheuerWell, just that as I look back on my life, it's mostly
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Joan Scheueras a life.
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Joan Scheuer63 years of marriage is a different life.
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Caitlin HaskettYeah.
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Joan ScheuerMarriage and motherhood and
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Joan Scheuerfamily life. It's a little hard to remember.
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Caitlin HaskettI understand that. All right,
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Caitlin Haskettwell thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today.
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Caitlin HaskettIt's been really wonderful.
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Joan ScheuerWell, I enjoyed it.
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Caitlin HaskettAll right.
Transcript text
Caitlin Haskett (00:00:00):
The following interview with Joan Scheur was conducted by Caitlin Haskett on behalf of Bryn Mawr College as part of the project "Mid-Century Jewish Martyrs: A Collection of Oral Histories." It took place on July 10th at Joan's home, [redacted], New York City, New York. To begin with, can you tell me a little bit about where you grew up and what that was like?
Joan Scheuer (00:00:28):
Yes, I can. I was born in 1921. That makes me 98, as you probably realize, in New York City, and then my family moved to the suburbs. We lived in Scarsdale. It was, when we came there, a very mixed community now that I think of it. My family had much of the issues of being Jewish in a non-Jewish environment for a while, but they paid very little attention to it I thought at the time. I went to school there for a few years, and finally my mother sent me to Fielston. I don't know whether you know much about it. It's a high school in the Riverdale area of the Bronx, a very beautiful campus, and a wonderful school. She thought that I would get more out of it, which indeed I did. I loved the school and was very progressive at the time. It had good art and very interesting teachers came there. That was a good high school experience for me. I have twin sisters, they're four and a half years younger than I, and they're very active, very cute children. I enjoyed them when we were young, but I was not part of their lives very much because four and a half years makes a lot of difference at that age.
Joan Scheuer (00:02:54):
My life didn't really get going until I got out of college, you know about Bryn Mawr. We can discuss that in more detail if you like.
Caitlin Haskett (00:03:12):
Yeah. Can you tell me about what your parents did growing up, maybe what your father's profession was?
Joan Scheuer (00:03:20):
He was a lawyer. He never wanted to work for a firm. He was not financially very successful, but my mother's family was quite affluent by that time. They helped us move out of the city when I was eight to Scarsdale. They helped us get established in a little house in Scarsdale. As a family, we were very lucky in the Depression years.
Caitlin Haskett (00:04:15):
What about your mother? Did she stay at home with you?
Joan Scheuer (00:04:18):
She stayed at home. She was a pioneer educator. She helped start something called the Children's Book and Play Association, something like that, with a woman named Clara Blitzer, who was also well known in the early childhood education field. They were quite pioneering about what they did and tried to do for kids. She was a creative person. I think she either ran for congress one year or tried to. She was pretty active. My father was a supportive man. He did a lot with me, and we went fishing, and we did fun outdoor things.
Caitlin Haskett (00:05:35):
Lovely.
Joan Scheuer (00:05:44):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:05:46):
What was your religious background like growing up?
Joan Scheuer (00:05:52):
It was Reform Jewish exposure. They sent me to Sunday school. It was held in a church, so we went to the church every Sunday, and made clay figures of people who lived in tents who were supposed to be our ancestors. It was not a serious Jewish study, and nobody ever, because there was no Israel at that point.
Caitlin Haskett (00:06:40):
Yeah.
Joan Scheuer (00:06:40):
I didn't learn much about being Jewish. However, my family, my parents' friends that they saw in the area were mostly Jewish. The whole county around that town was our field of collecting other Jewish families for social contacts.
Caitlin Haskett (00:07:22):
Did you ever go to synagogue for religious services or celebrate Sabbath at home, anything like that?
Joan Scheuer (00:07:31):
No. We did not celebrate Sabbath at home. We did go to some things like they had social events that brought us in contact with other Jewish families, but not on a religious basis that I remember.
Caitlin Haskett (00:07:59):
I see.
Caitlin Haskett (00:08:06):
Maybe we can shift now in talking about the decision for you to attend Bryn Mawr. Do you remember how it would decided that you would go to Bryn Mawr?
Joan Scheuer (00:08:16):
Well, I graduated a year ahead of myself, and that framed everything. I had to make college applications on my own, and I had visited Bryn Mawr. Of course I thought it was beautiful, if nothing else it's beautiful. I didn't particularly want to go to a girl's college, but it was the first college that returned my application with an acceptance, so I grabbed it. That seemed to settle everything. I'm not sorry. I think I got a great education there.
Caitlin Haskett (00:09:33):
What did your family think about your choice?
Joan Scheuer (00:09:40):
They always just sort of supported me. They didn't have much of a decision role in the choice. They were very glad that I got accepted, and that was fine. Did I get any financial help? I did get maybe partial help, but that might have relieved my father a little. He was not doing too well, but my mother's side of the family was doing quite well. They were pretty generous to the next generation. They certainly made it possible for us to live as well as we did. We had a little house in Scarsdale, and ... no stress.
Caitlin Haskett (00:11:05):
What do you remember about your first year at Bryn Mawr and getting to campus and experiencing college life for the first time?
Joan Scheuer (00:11:16):
Yeah. Freshman week was a little like freshman week here. I just remember we had a lot of fun because we were assigned houses, and I landed in Rhodes. It was brand new, and what was called the smoking room at the time downstairs was not yet painted. They let us paint it, so we had a great time with that with a few people, and of course that was all very hilarious way of getting to know people. Then the first person I ran into was Louisa Horton, who is a terrifically outgoing person. She ended up as an actress, she had a career in acting, and at the time she and I and a few others were immediately set to work on a freshman play of some sort. Do they still have that? Uh-uh (negative). Well, it's a good idea, because it brings kids together, and we were very busy with that. It was some nonsense that you were supposed to keep something secret, and our secret, you were supposed to have some animal that the other class wasn't supposed to find out about. Our animal was a man, and we made him into a Western Union boy. We had a lot of fun, I remember, but anyway, it was just a kind of lark.
Caitlin Haskett (00:13:42):
How did you find the man to turn into--
Joan Scheuer (00:13:45):
We rented it. We literally engaged a Western Union young person, who was baffled but willing, and instructed him as to what he was supposed to do, and that it was some kind of a stage and performance that Louisa Horton was definitely the star of.
Caitlin Haskett (00:14:13):
Did you hide him on campus?
Joan Scheuer (00:14:15):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:14:16):
Do you remember where?
Joan Scheuer (00:14:17):
No. I don't remember those details, but that was part of the fun. That way I did get to meet people, and I didn't worry much about who else was going to join us.
Caitlin Haskett (00:14:59):
You had a solid group of friends forming from the very beginning?
Joan Scheuer (00:15:03):
Well, in those days you were friendly mostly with the people in your dorm. Where do you live?
Caitlin Haskett (00:15:11):
I lived in Brecken for two years, and Rockefeller last year, and I'll be in Rhodes next year.
Joan Scheuer (00:15:17):
Oh.
Caitlin Haskett (00:15:19):
Yeah. What was it like living in Rhodes? You mentioned that it was new.
Joan Scheuer (00:15:25):
Well, we thought it was wonderful, we loved it. We had nice new rooms, it was brand new. I had a pretty big room. My family was pretty indulgent, and my mother got my lots of clothes, which I didn't need. The room was, oh how you decorated your room was very important. Is it still?
Caitlin Haskett (00:16:08):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:16:10):
How did you decorate your room?
Joan Scheuer (00:16:12):
I just remember the colors. I don't remember the furniture was anything special. It had green and orange, and they said in the advice to incoming freshmen to bring a teapot, I had a teapot. Never used it much, but that was recommended. I think they made some effort to put you in touch with any neighbors you might have in your home environment, but that didn't come to much. After that freshman week, I think we just got down to business and started having classes. Yeah. So
Caitlin Haskett (00:17:43):
What do you remember about academics at Bryn Mawr and the classes that you took?
Joan Scheuer (00:17:50):
Oh, I do remember, I was interested in economics and politics. I remember going out to dinner with the economics professor, early. A few of us went with him, and he asked some funny questions like, "Why are you here?" Which we thought was pretty self evident, but he didn't think in terms of professions. He thought that, he didn't realize that we were interested in what kind of work we would be doing as a future. I know most of the people who went to dinner with him that night, which I cannot remember who they were, were sort of surprised and he was sort of surprised. He thought we were just there for finishing school or something, I don't know.
Caitlin Haskett (00:19:29):
Do you remember how that dinner with the professor came about? Was it--were you in a class with him?
Joan Scheuer (00:19:34):
It was pretty casual, I don't know. There were a bunch of us, it wasn't that he selected anybody in particular. It just seemed very natural, you go into town and find a coffee shop or something. He was married, he had a wife who was given some assistant professorship duties, like tutorial duties or workshops of some kind. She was not very good, she couldn't answer questions at all, poor lady. At that time I guess I had sorted out some other people on campus who were interested in the same subjects, but ... oh, I know what happened. I submitted some articles to, there was a literary magazine, and it was a newspaper we called it. I got very involved in that. In fact, by the time I was maybe a sophomore, I was editor of both of them. I gave a lot of time to it. Do they still have it?
Caitlin Haskett (00:21:25):
Yeah. What were your responsibilities as editor?
Joan Scheuer (00:21:30):
Oh, my big responsibility was to go into the printer and either write the headlines or help set the type. I got my hands really deep into that, and thought it was very important. We chose what articles, what to write about, and we had quite a good group there from all over the campus, not just Rhodes. I had contacts of friends, like Barbara Coolie. Do you know who she is? MacNamay family. Yeah, and others that were active. We thought of things. We had to decide what to write because what is
Joan Scheuer (00:22:36):
there to write? But we
Joan Scheuer (00:22:38):
did invent a lot of things
Caitlin Haskett (00:22:44):
What kind of things did you write about?
Joan Scheuer (00:22:46):
Well, one time we crashed the art museum in Marion that didn't allow students. Then we had to get in surreptitiously, and we got Barbara Coolie in. We wrote it up. Oh, and then what happened was Pearl Harbor, and Vincent Sheen was giving a speech. He was a well known journalist of the period, and he was invited to dinner before his talk at this park. She was the president, and so I was invited, and a few other students. He told the whole assembly that the Navy had been practically knocked out at Pearl Harbor. This was a huge scoop, so we published this in great glee, and claimed to have beaten the Philadelphia papers at that. Also I had got to drive him back to town or something. Anyway, it was a big excitement about Pearl Harbor. Then we had to go to work on the war effort, so we had plenty to write about. It was interesting times.
Caitlin Haskett (00:24:46):
What do you remember about the effects of the war on campus life?
Joan Scheuer (00:24:54):
The first thing that happened was the professors started leaving. The first to leave was the art professor, because he knew Japanese. Then other people, including my, well this was four years. This was my senior year. How are we jumping so fast to senior year? '41, because I went and started at '38.
Caitlin Haskett (00:25:47):
It's okay, we can jump around a little bit.
Joan Scheuer (00:25:49):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:25:59):
You were talking about professors who left.
Joan Scheuer (00:26:02):
Yeah. My economics professor, Miss Northrup, left without saying anything, giving anybody any addresses or reading my honor's thesis or commenting. That went like, nobody ever read it. When I later wanted to apply to law school, I could not find her. I had absolutely no recommendations about what I had achieved as a student. I don't think I'll ever forgive her for that. Yeah, a lot changed because we lost several good professors. Then things changed until we graduated and we found out all of a sudden we could get jobs right away, because the men had all been drafted or were subject to the draft. By that time people's boyfriends and brothers were being drafted. It was pretty stressful for many people.
Caitlin Haskett (00:27:52):
The war really only influenced the end of your time at Bryn Mawr? Do you remember if people talked about or were worried about what was happening before Pearl Harbor and the US joined?
Joan Scheuer (00:28:06):
Yeah. They were very worried. It was very stressful, and many people were very personally engaged because it affected everyone. We had a real draft, it didn't just mean that, the way it is now, so voluntary army. That many people involved, but almost everybody. Oh and the day that Pearl Harbor happened, my classmate who lived in the same floor was listening to the Philharmonic as I was in my room, she's listening in her room. It's announced that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. The Philharmonic is interrupted, she stepped out of her apartment, I stepped out of my apartment.
Joan Scheuer (00:29:35):
Her father was an admiral in the Navy at Pearl Harbor, and she was engaged to some young man on the ship. That was a very tense time. For a week or 10 days, she didn't hear. That woman is Ellen Stone, who is well known philosopher today, and married Professor Weiss, the professor of philosophy. Quite dramatic stories there. We were thoroughly shocked, shaken. That went on, well I guess that was towards the end, but at campus from the moment that the war really took a turn, I think everybody was involved. Not much time for religion.
Caitlin Haskett (00:31:20):
No. Yeah, I want to shift gears a little bit and actually ask about religion. What was it like being Jewish on campus? Did you know other Jewish students at all or anything like that?
Joan Scheuer (00:31:36):
There were not too many, but I knew who they were and, uh, there was no gathering place or services that were held or anything within sight that I can remember. Uh, but I had a close friend who came from Philadelphia who was Jewish. So, uh, we, so I, she either we had, Oh, and the boy was going out to the verse when I was at freshmen was not Jewish. Uh, he was a scientist, uh, w but one thing did happen. There was a student named Goldberg and she asked me to go with her to some, uh, event somewhere where there were Jewish boys, some sort of a school or something like that. And we, and I said, yes, I would have went. And it was horrendous for both of us. Cause these boys hadn't seen girls. They didn't know how to treat the girls. They were very young, it was a disaster that wasn't helpful, but that was a horrible experience. Uh, I mean they really chased. It was very unfortunate. Did I meet any Jewish boys there? No. Haverford, I didn't see much of Haverford boys, but some people did. Later my daughter went to Bryn Mawr and she has a whole group of Haverford friends. I don't know that there's a Jewish temple or ...
Caitlin Haskett (00:34:52):
I don't, I'm not sure.
Joan Scheuer (00:34:53):
A place, there was something.
Caitlin Haskett (00:34:57):
I'm not sure if there was one around when you would've been at Bryn Mawr. There's a couple on the main line now though. You mentioned your friend who was from Philadelphia who was Jewish. Did she ever go back into the city for services or anything like that? No?
Joan Scheuer (00:35:21):
No.
Caitlin Haskett (00:35:25):
How did you get to know her?
Joan Scheuer (00:35:30):
I can't remember. I don't really remember.
Caitlin Haskett (00:35:46):
What was she like?
Joan Scheuer (00:35:51):
Uh,
Joan Scheuer (00:35:54):
She was interested in the same things I was, I thought she was not, I can't remember what she majored in but it wasn't economics, because people who majored in that I can count on my left hand, four people was all. Oh, I know what happened. During the summer, four of us went to work for the government in Washington DC. We all were loaned a house in Washington by a friendly Bryn Mawr alumni, and it was beautiful, and we had a very nice time. One woman had a blind date, and he walked in. Oh, she was such a good looking, beautiful girl. He walked in and I was in the living room, and he asked where she was. I just knew they were going to end up getting married, they did. It was nice time, that was Margie McGrath. Not Jewish, nobody was Jewish in that group of economists.
Caitlin Haskett (00:38:01):
What about
Caitlin Haskett (00:38:02):
people in Rhodes? Did you have any friends in the dorm who were Jewish?
Joan Scheuer (00:38:15):
Well, Ellen Stone was not Jewish. Her father was an admiral
Joan Scheuer (00:38:26):
Um,
Joan Scheuer (00:38:29):
She ended up the top of her class. She had brilliant red hair. Who else was my friend in the dorm? I don't know. I wouldn't have searched around for them necessarily, but there weren't so many Jewish students at the whole college.
Caitlin Haskett (00:39:06):
Yeah.
Joan Scheuer (00:39:12):
It's changed.
Caitlin Haskett (00:39:15):
Did you feel like religion factored into the way that you interacted with other people at Bryn Mawr even if you weren't seeking out Jewish friends?
Joan Scheuer (00:39:26):
Well, you're getting at something. There was a little, I felt a little tension about the people I admired and who were working on the newspaper when I got there. Some of them were clearly ... they clearly had a problem with my being Jewish. Which I put down to social snobbery, they were very old family, waspy people. I did notice that, but I didn't get the idea that there was a lot of antisemitism there. We were so protected from it.
Caitlin Haskett (00:40:41):
Sort of in a bubble on campus.
Joan Scheuer (00:40:46):
Yeah. Everywhere, yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:40:50):
Tell me a little bit more about what you experienced from the older people on the college news. Yeah, what was that like?
Joan Scheuer (00:41:03):
I was curious about them. This woman would talk about her social standing and her family history, mainly her family history. She'd make it
Joan Scheuer (00:41:34):
a little too clear that I could never aspire to anything like that. I don't know. You sniff it out, I can tell you, but she was the only person I noticed that. I don't think there's so many people like that.
Caitlin Haskett (00:42:13):
Did you ever discuss religion with any of your friends on campus?
Joan Scheuer (00:42:18):
Probably, I don't remember making an issue of it because oh well. It's the sort of thing we talk about. I'm trying to think about some of the people as I got a little older, because I was more interested, I was so interested in this, getting the college news out and the other things I did, I didn't worry about religion. We talked about philosophy. We talked philosophy and we had good discussions about same sort of, who am I discussions one does have. Paul Weiss, the philosophy teacher, was Jewish. He and his wife were pretty hospitable, and they'd have people in their home, invite us and others. I'm sure he didn't pick out the Jewish students, but I think the Jewish students were very comfortable with him. One's relationship with the professors was very
Joan Scheuer (00:44:32):
important when I was there, because they did open their homes and they did develop individual personal relationships with students. Is that still true?
Caitlin Haskett (00:44:52):
Not that I've experienced so much. Who were some of the professors that you became close with?
Joan Scheuer (00:45:02):
Well, there's Paul Weiss, then there was a German professor who is not Jewish. They were very warm. There was a woman that was the daughter of a Jewish scholar who Bryn Mawr invited to come to teach. The Jewish scholar died, her name was Ruth Fiesel. F-I-E-S-E-L, I think. This was a tragedy for that girl. She was so needy after the death of her mother. She was, we all tried to help her but she never really ... I guess she did finally get back readjusted and back to finding out who she herself was, but there were episodes like that, that you could say we're products of the war. It was really terrible.
Caitlin Haskett (00:46:41):
Was Ruth a classmate of yours?
Joan Scheuer (00:46:51):
Yes. Her whole story I was pretty close to.
Caitlin Haskett (00:46:57):
What was she like?
Joan Scheuer (00:47:13):
It took her several years to find out, to mature. She was devastated. I don't blame her, she was totally lost in every way. She didn't have a surrounding family, and she had to adopt really a new country. They came from Germany, so that was a Jewish drama. Can I think of any others? Oh, and by the way, Louisa Horton my freshman associate didn't last. She left after the first year, and came to New York to be an actress.
Caitlin Haskett (00:48:35):
Is that why she left?
Joan Scheuer (00:48:38):
Yeah. She did pretty well. She was right. She did the right thing. To me, I thought it was an enormous leap, because I thought so much about the things we were learning and finding ourselves. She already knew herself.
Caitlin Haskett (00:49:10):
It's impressive at a young age.
Joan Scheuer (00:49:11):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:49:15):
Shifting gears a little bit, what do you remember about your social life while you were at Bryn Mawr? What kind of things did you get up to with your friends?
Joan Scheuer (00:49:27):
Well, if you talk about dating-
Caitlin Haskett (00:49:30):
Sure.
Joan Scheuer (00:49:30):
... as I said, my first year I went out with this young man who was I think at Penn. I did go to some of the fraternity things, and they were very segregated. I didn't like that much.
Caitlin Haskett (00:50:00):
Because they were segregated or for other reasons?
Joan Scheuer (00:50:10):
I'm not sure. Maybe I didn't like the people in the fraternities, or the fraternity I was at, visiting, at the dance or whatever it was.
Caitlin Haskett (00:50:33):
What about after your freshman year? Did you continue to date while you were at Bryn Mawr?
Joan Scheuer (00:50:40):
Yeah, but not ... oh in the summer, because we had this summer in Washington, I had some dates. It was that Navy guy I went out with. Not Jewish, I don't know. I had some dates but not a real social ...I wonder if I went home at all. It wasn't, I must have. I must have gone home, and then at home in Scarsdale, I had a pretty extensive social life with, there was a temple and there was a Jewish dancing school where they arranged dances so we did have that very important, big dances. We dressed up and got into a long dress, and I had a whole group of young men there, one of which I was very close to for a number of years. I guess that was the real social piece of it.
Caitlin Haskett (00:53:45):
You think, do you remember going home during the school year or just on breaks do you think?
Joan Scheuer (00:53:54):
Well, what does that mean, on breaks?
Caitlin Haskett (00:53:56):
During spring break or winter break.
Joan Scheuer (00:54:00):
Yeah, sure. Those were when you would have the dances and the other things, and see that group of people, and young men and women. Women too, had lots of friends there.
Caitlin Haskett (00:54:18):
Yeah.
Joan Scheuer (00:54:29):
That was much more specifically Jewish. My parents, they would be the sons and daughters of my parents' friends, mostly.
Caitlin Haskett (00:54:50):
Did you feel like it was a big change from the community you had at Bryn Mawr? Yeah, what was the similarities and differences between the community of friends you had in Scarsdale and the friends you had at Bryn Mawr?
Joan Scheuer (00:55:13):
Well, the friends I had at Bryn Mawr were not Jewish and for the most part the friends I had at Scarsdale were all Jewish.
Caitlin Haskett (00:55:41):
Would you talk about different things or do different things together? Anything like that?
Joan Scheuer (00:55:46):
Nothing different. People are the same.
Caitlin Haskett (00:55:50):
Fair enough, I was just curious.
Joan Scheuer (00:55:51):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:55:55):
All right.
Caitlin Haskett (00:55:57):
Do you remember when you were a senior, approaching the end of your time at Bryn Mawr, what were your expectations for what you were going to do after you graduated?
Joan Scheuer (00:56:10):
I think I thought I was go to law school. This was in the back of my mind, I think. I know it was later, but also I wanted to work with the union movement, which I did. Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:56:59):
How did that, wanting to go to law school or work with the unions compare to what your classmates wanted to do? Do you know?
Joan Scheuer (00:57:12):
It depends which classmates. Some of them were in the same track, and others not. When we got the offer to work for the government when the war started, that became pretty clear. Everybody wanted to work for the war, and I took a civil service exam. Right away, jobs opened up because I was on the civil service list. I was amazed, we were all amazed that we could get jobs right away, because we were Depression kids.
Caitlin Haskett (00:57:58):
What kind of work did you do in the civil service after Bryn Mawr?
Joan Scheuer (00:58:03):
When the war started, I worked for the War Production Board. I got a job in an office where we were allocating scarce materials, steel, aluminum, and one other. I got a job right away, and then I met people there.
Caitlin Haskett (00:58:43):
After Bryn Mawr, you started working and then you mentioned you went to law school eventually.
Joan Scheuer (00:58:48):
I didn't.
Caitlin Haskett (00:58:50):
You didn't? You wanted to but you never did?
Joan Scheuer (00:58:52):
No. I didn't go to law school, I am not a lawyer. I worked for a union during the war because the unions had a no strike pledge during World War II in the beginning. They had a lot of paperwork, and they were overwhelmed. I went to Chicago and started working with a guy who was helping a union. That's how I started working for a union, or the union. Yeah. I worked for more than one.
Caitlin Haskett (01:00:02):
I know this is a big question, but maybe we can fully shift gears and talk about just what your life has been like since you graduated. You've talked a little bit about the beginnings of your career and working for the union, but if there's more you want to share about that or just anywhere your life has gone.
Joan Scheuer (01:00:21):
What happened finally, I was working in Chicago, and that was really work. Finally I realized I should go home to mommy. Why? Because ... anyhow, I decided enough of this. I'm going to go home. I can't remember exactly, something happened in the war, like it had to do with a change. Peace came. That was basically the idea, so I went back to Scarsdale, but it wasn't Scarsdale anymore. The family had moved to Manhattan, and so I ended up where my parents were in an apartment where they barely had room for me. Summer came, and my sister
Joan Scheuer (01:02:20):
and I were invited to the country club Saturday by a friend of my mother's, and we drove down from where we were spending the summer. That's how I met my husband.
Caitlin Haskett (01:02:53):
He just happened to be at the country club that day too?
Joan Scheuer (01:02:55):
No. It was a party for him, and my mother, this is the truth of it. My mother had, she went to Barnard. They were in the same class at the college, and they knew each other, so they knew there were a couple. One family had boys and one family had girls, we were the girls. My sister and I came down to this country club where the party was being given for my husband. I think it was his birthday, husband to be. That's how we met. I'm going to have to go to the bathroom, I'll be right back.
Caitlin Haskett (01:04:00):
You mentioned meeting your husband and then you just said that your marriage is a main focus in your life.
Joan Scheuer (01:04:07):
Well, I said the main part, but I meant not chronologically. I spent most of my years as a married wife and mother. Now I'm a great-grandmother. Yeah. I have eight great-grandchildren and 12 grandchildren, something like that. It's quite wonderful.
Caitlin Haskett (01:04:45):
You first had to have children to have grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Did you raise your children in New York? Yeah, did you raise your children in New York?
Joan Scheuer (01:04:57):
Well, no. We lived most of our married life in a suburb called Larchmont, which is about 20 miles from here. It's on a large
Joan Scheuer (01:05:18):
body of water, the Long Island Sound, so that my husband was a real boat lover. That became a big part of my life, and my children's lives. I've had some tragedy, I lost my eldest son when he was a grown man, and had himself three children, and was a very important part of our lives. That was sad episode and didn't go away, doesn't go away. Otherwise it's pretty fascinating watching everybody grow up, and it goes by very fast. My husband, when we met at that party, last seen at the party at the club, he was much more Jewish than I. In fact, he became quite active. He was president of the Board of the Hebrew Union College, which trains rabbis.
Joan Scheuer (01:06:58):
We had pretty active life in that circle. I know a lot of rabbis now. He was also always such an avid boater that we owned a large sailboat, and sailed on it every summer with our children, with our friends. You could sleep on the boat, it's a big thing. We managed it ourselves, I had to learn to do that. I learned to love it, and we went once all the way up to Canada with it. We brought our family in and our kids. Most of my children liked to sail, but one in particular never did. He's the one who, he lives nearby me and I see a lot of him now. It's been very gratifying, I've enjoyed the present, which still keeps me close to them. I'm very lucky.
Caitlin Haskett (01:08:45):
Did you have any career after you met your husband?
Joan Scheuer (01:08:52):
Oh yeah. I did, but what happened was I took ... in the '70's, let's see, I got a doctorate, a PhD. That immediately opened some doors, and I began working right away when I got the degree with the New York City Board of Education as a revenue person who studied the way the state was funding the schools, the way the federal government, very little money was coming in, and the city. How the schools in the city were supported. I worked at the Board of Education here for 10 years, which was too long. I should not have worked so long.
Caitlin Haskett (01:10:07):
Why not?
Joan Scheuer (01:10:10):
Because I was in sort of a rut. Then I quit that and I began working with groups of people who were leaders of organizations that got together frequently. I was their financial advisor for another long set of years, so that was quite fruitful and very nice people there. That's what I did in between there and here.
Joan Scheuer (01:10:57):
Still have a lot of friends, those jobs people mix Jewish and not Jewish. It's been a very happy life. I'm very lucky
Caitlin Haskett (01:11:27):
What kinds of things do you spend your time on nowadays?
Joan Scheuer (01:11:34):
Well, here we are in this retirement community, it's another community. It's a lot like first week in college, you get to know the people, you sort them out. Here there are a lot of people who are not really well in one form or another. That leaves the people who are well who all kind of know who they are, and after you've sorted that out, what we do here, the biggest thing is they have a lot of activities. They even have things like figure drawing. I do a lot of art. I didn't tell you about that. I've always had that hobby or interest. That's my picture, I have some other pictures that are up. There are activities here, they have a lot of exercise which I like, so keep moving. I do something active every day if I can.
Caitlin Haskett (01:13:13):
That's good.
Joan Scheuer (01:13:14):
Then we do things, and they have lectures. They have jewelry making, we did some, I liked that. We have some people like to have clay, they really try to get people to use their hands, their brains, and whatever they have left. Dinner is very important, every night you have to arrange your dinner especially so you have some social demands.
Caitlin Haskett (01:14:02):
There's no eating in your apartment by yourself?
Joan Scheuer (01:14:04):
You can, but they try to get people to make arrangements. They have set up the tables in the dining room for four. I think that is by the design, I think they know what they're doing here, so that people have to pay attention and arrange dinner. That takes half the day. They have the regular exercise programs, and they managed to bring some lecturers here. Somebody, there's a lady who does wonderful talks on opera and classical music that Preston Twanley, he used to do it for QXR. He was here last night, and movies every night so you can ...
Caitlin Haskett (01:15:29):
Yeah. Sounds like a lot of interesting stuff.
Joan Scheuer (01:15:31):
That's the idea, they keep people to their best ability occupied.
Caitlin Haskett (01:15:43):
Yeah. I realized, I never asked you about traditions while you were at Bryn Mawr. What do you remember about traditions at Bryn Mawr? I know this is a change of topic.
Joan Scheuer (01:15:53):
Well, I did certainly remember Lantern Night and May Day. Those stand out. Are there others?
Caitlin Haskett (01:16:11):
Yeah, parade night.
Joan Scheuer (01:16:11):
Don't remember that. Don't think we had it.
Caitlin Haskett (01:16:15):
Did you have a favorite tradition between Lantern Night and May Day?
Joan Scheuer (01:16:24):
No, they're very different but I liked them, and I ended up there.
Caitlin Haskett (01:16:28):
Oh yeah.
Joan Scheuer (01:16:32):
I didn't get it until a few years ago. I don't know what happened to the original lantern, but a few years ago, it was my 75th reunion, and my daughter had her 25th reunion. We decided to go down there, and they were very receptive, and they were wonderful. Is Kim ... who is the president of Bryn Mawr now?
Caitlin Haskett (01:17:09):
Kim Cassidy.
Joan Scheuer (01:17:10):
Kim Cassidy, yeah. Well, she was very outgoing and friendly to us. We had a wonderful reception. There was one other person in my year who graduated the same year I did. With her, her name is Christine. so we all ... don't ask me her last name, I've forgotten.
Caitlin Haskett (01:17:54):
Okay
Joan Scheuer (01:17:58):
So We had a great time. They presented me with that lantern.
Caitlin Haskett (01:18:11):
That's lovely.
Joan Scheuer (01:18:13):
I'm very happy to have that, so I do care about traditions.
Caitlin Haskett (01:18:19):
Yeah. What do you remember about getting your lantern, the first lantern initially when you were a first year at Bryn Mawr?
Joan Scheuer (01:18:30):
Very little. I don't remember it, it seems I lost it so I don't know where it is, but they replaced it. I do remember the business about May Day with the hoops, the seniors were supposed to give you, leave at your door. Do they still do that?
Caitlin Haskett (01:18:55):
Yeah
Joan Scheuer (01:18:55):
I remember that, yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (01:18:57):
Do you remember who left you a hoop?
Joan Scheuer (01:19:00):
Yeah, I did get several, but I don't know that I remember who. I had some friends in the senior class, but I've forgotten their names.
Caitlin Haskett (01:19:19):
What else do you remember about May Day?
Joan Scheuer (01:19:27):
It's quite joyous. Oh, I remember W. H. Orden was hanging around our campus one May Day and just ... trying not to be noticed or noticed, sort of hiding against columns. I do remember that, watching May Day.
Caitlin Haskett (01:20:03):
Yeah. I guess people like to come for the spectacle.
Joan Scheuer (01:20:05):
It's a spectacle.
Caitlin Haskett (01:20:05):
Yeah
Joan Scheuer (01:20:08):
A great chance to preserve those crazy moments. It still goes on, that's good.
Caitlin Haskett (01:20:30):
Yeah. To wrap up a little bit, I have two more questions. The first is what sort of influence do you the Bryn Mawr has had on your life? Or do you think it has had any influence?
Joan Scheuer (01:20:48):
I think it did encourage a kind of rigor, and I think that its graduates know the value of hard work and demand hard work. As for the subject matter opening up, I didn't get much out of it. As an economist, I got some of the language but I'm not a real economist. Had to be a school of finance economist. Maybe I never wanted to be. I'm not mathematical enough nowadays. I appreciate what I got out of Bryn Mawr, and when we went back, I was blown away by how beautiful it is. It's more beautiful than ever it was.
Caitlin Haskett (01:22:11):
Yeah. It's a gorgeous place.
Joan Scheuer (01:22:18):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (01:22:24):
What do you think, if you can remember yourself when you were a senior at Bryn Mawr getting ready to graduate, what do you think that version of yourself would be surprised to know about the life that you've led since then?
Joan Scheuer (01:22:39):
Well, speaking of that, suddenly I remember being on the lawn at graduation with this Ellen Stone. She said something to me like, "Did you ever realize that your name makes you sound Jewish?" My maiden name was Gross. It suddenly came to me that she thought I was not Jewish, and didn't ever know, she got me a little wrong maybe. That was a funny conversation, at graduation.
Caitlin Haskett (01:23:35):
Where did that conversation go from there after she said that?
Joan Scheuer (01:23:39):
Nowhere. We were just standing with our families sort of awkwardly, and maybe getting ready to go to some event or parade or march or play with hoops, I don't remember that, but that kind of shocked me.
Caitlin Haskett (01:24:08):
Yeah.
Joan Scheuer (01:24:14):
It suggested that people didn't know I was Jewish, and maybe they would've acted differently.
Caitlin Haskett (01:24:24):
Maybe.
Joan Scheuer (01:24:26):
Yeah. Are there many more Jewish students there now?
Caitlin Haskett (01:24:36):
I think it's about 12% to 20% Jewish students now.
Joan Scheuer (01:24:42):
That's a lot more than it was.
Caitlin Haskett (01:24:49):
Yeah. All right. Before we finish then turn off the recorder, is there anything else you want to add in to this recording?
Joan Scheuer (01:25:01):
Well, just that as I look back on my life, it's mostly as a life. 63 years of marriage is a different life.
Caitlin Haskett (01:25:17):
Yeah.
Joan Scheuer (01:25:21):
Marriage and motherhood and family life. It's a little hard to remember.
Caitlin Haskett (01:25:35):
I understand that. All right, well thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. It's been really wonderful.
Joan Scheuer (01:25:45):
Well, I enjoyed it.
Caitlin Haskett (01:25:46):
All right.
The following interview with Joan Scheur was conducted by Caitlin Haskett on behalf of Bryn Mawr College as part of the project "Mid-Century Jewish Martyrs: A Collection of Oral Histories." It took place on July 10th at Joan's home, [redacted], New York City, New York. To begin with, can you tell me a little bit about where you grew up and what that was like?
Joan Scheuer (00:00:28):
Yes, I can. I was born in 1921. That makes me 98, as you probably realize, in New York City, and then my family moved to the suburbs. We lived in Scarsdale. It was, when we came there, a very mixed community now that I think of it. My family had much of the issues of being Jewish in a non-Jewish environment for a while, but they paid very little attention to it I thought at the time. I went to school there for a few years, and finally my mother sent me to Fielston. I don't know whether you know much about it. It's a high school in the Riverdale area of the Bronx, a very beautiful campus, and a wonderful school. She thought that I would get more out of it, which indeed I did. I loved the school and was very progressive at the time. It had good art and very interesting teachers came there. That was a good high school experience for me. I have twin sisters, they're four and a half years younger than I, and they're very active, very cute children. I enjoyed them when we were young, but I was not part of their lives very much because four and a half years makes a lot of difference at that age.
Joan Scheuer (00:02:54):
My life didn't really get going until I got out of college, you know about Bryn Mawr. We can discuss that in more detail if you like.
Caitlin Haskett (00:03:12):
Yeah. Can you tell me about what your parents did growing up, maybe what your father's profession was?
Joan Scheuer (00:03:20):
He was a lawyer. He never wanted to work for a firm. He was not financially very successful, but my mother's family was quite affluent by that time. They helped us move out of the city when I was eight to Scarsdale. They helped us get established in a little house in Scarsdale. As a family, we were very lucky in the Depression years.
Caitlin Haskett (00:04:15):
What about your mother? Did she stay at home with you?
Joan Scheuer (00:04:18):
She stayed at home. She was a pioneer educator. She helped start something called the Children's Book and Play Association, something like that, with a woman named Clara Blitzer, who was also well known in the early childhood education field. They were quite pioneering about what they did and tried to do for kids. She was a creative person. I think she either ran for congress one year or tried to. She was pretty active. My father was a supportive man. He did a lot with me, and we went fishing, and we did fun outdoor things.
Caitlin Haskett (00:05:35):
Lovely.
Joan Scheuer (00:05:44):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:05:46):
What was your religious background like growing up?
Joan Scheuer (00:05:52):
It was Reform Jewish exposure. They sent me to Sunday school. It was held in a church, so we went to the church every Sunday, and made clay figures of people who lived in tents who were supposed to be our ancestors. It was not a serious Jewish study, and nobody ever, because there was no Israel at that point.
Caitlin Haskett (00:06:40):
Yeah.
Joan Scheuer (00:06:40):
I didn't learn much about being Jewish. However, my family, my parents' friends that they saw in the area were mostly Jewish. The whole county around that town was our field of collecting other Jewish families for social contacts.
Caitlin Haskett (00:07:22):
Did you ever go to synagogue for religious services or celebrate Sabbath at home, anything like that?
Joan Scheuer (00:07:31):
No. We did not celebrate Sabbath at home. We did go to some things like they had social events that brought us in contact with other Jewish families, but not on a religious basis that I remember.
Caitlin Haskett (00:07:59):
I see.
Caitlin Haskett (00:08:06):
Maybe we can shift now in talking about the decision for you to attend Bryn Mawr. Do you remember how it would decided that you would go to Bryn Mawr?
Joan Scheuer (00:08:16):
Well, I graduated a year ahead of myself, and that framed everything. I had to make college applications on my own, and I had visited Bryn Mawr. Of course I thought it was beautiful, if nothing else it's beautiful. I didn't particularly want to go to a girl's college, but it was the first college that returned my application with an acceptance, so I grabbed it. That seemed to settle everything. I'm not sorry. I think I got a great education there.
Caitlin Haskett (00:09:33):
What did your family think about your choice?
Joan Scheuer (00:09:40):
They always just sort of supported me. They didn't have much of a decision role in the choice. They were very glad that I got accepted, and that was fine. Did I get any financial help? I did get maybe partial help, but that might have relieved my father a little. He was not doing too well, but my mother's side of the family was doing quite well. They were pretty generous to the next generation. They certainly made it possible for us to live as well as we did. We had a little house in Scarsdale, and ... no stress.
Caitlin Haskett (00:11:05):
What do you remember about your first year at Bryn Mawr and getting to campus and experiencing college life for the first time?
Joan Scheuer (00:11:16):
Yeah. Freshman week was a little like freshman week here. I just remember we had a lot of fun because we were assigned houses, and I landed in Rhodes. It was brand new, and what was called the smoking room at the time downstairs was not yet painted. They let us paint it, so we had a great time with that with a few people, and of course that was all very hilarious way of getting to know people. Then the first person I ran into was Louisa Horton, who is a terrifically outgoing person. She ended up as an actress, she had a career in acting, and at the time she and I and a few others were immediately set to work on a freshman play of some sort. Do they still have that? Uh-uh (negative). Well, it's a good idea, because it brings kids together, and we were very busy with that. It was some nonsense that you were supposed to keep something secret, and our secret, you were supposed to have some animal that the other class wasn't supposed to find out about. Our animal was a man, and we made him into a Western Union boy. We had a lot of fun, I remember, but anyway, it was just a kind of lark.
Caitlin Haskett (00:13:42):
How did you find the man to turn into--
Joan Scheuer (00:13:45):
We rented it. We literally engaged a Western Union young person, who was baffled but willing, and instructed him as to what he was supposed to do, and that it was some kind of a stage and performance that Louisa Horton was definitely the star of.
Caitlin Haskett (00:14:13):
Did you hide him on campus?
Joan Scheuer (00:14:15):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:14:16):
Do you remember where?
Joan Scheuer (00:14:17):
No. I don't remember those details, but that was part of the fun. That way I did get to meet people, and I didn't worry much about who else was going to join us.
Caitlin Haskett (00:14:59):
You had a solid group of friends forming from the very beginning?
Joan Scheuer (00:15:03):
Well, in those days you were friendly mostly with the people in your dorm. Where do you live?
Caitlin Haskett (00:15:11):
I lived in Brecken for two years, and Rockefeller last year, and I'll be in Rhodes next year.
Joan Scheuer (00:15:17):
Oh.
Caitlin Haskett (00:15:19):
Yeah. What was it like living in Rhodes? You mentioned that it was new.
Joan Scheuer (00:15:25):
Well, we thought it was wonderful, we loved it. We had nice new rooms, it was brand new. I had a pretty big room. My family was pretty indulgent, and my mother got my lots of clothes, which I didn't need. The room was, oh how you decorated your room was very important. Is it still?
Caitlin Haskett (00:16:08):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:16:10):
How did you decorate your room?
Joan Scheuer (00:16:12):
I just remember the colors. I don't remember the furniture was anything special. It had green and orange, and they said in the advice to incoming freshmen to bring a teapot, I had a teapot. Never used it much, but that was recommended. I think they made some effort to put you in touch with any neighbors you might have in your home environment, but that didn't come to much. After that freshman week, I think we just got down to business and started having classes. Yeah. So
Caitlin Haskett (00:17:43):
What do you remember about academics at Bryn Mawr and the classes that you took?
Joan Scheuer (00:17:50):
Oh, I do remember, I was interested in economics and politics. I remember going out to dinner with the economics professor, early. A few of us went with him, and he asked some funny questions like, "Why are you here?" Which we thought was pretty self evident, but he didn't think in terms of professions. He thought that, he didn't realize that we were interested in what kind of work we would be doing as a future. I know most of the people who went to dinner with him that night, which I cannot remember who they were, were sort of surprised and he was sort of surprised. He thought we were just there for finishing school or something, I don't know.
Caitlin Haskett (00:19:29):
Do you remember how that dinner with the professor came about? Was it--were you in a class with him?
Joan Scheuer (00:19:34):
It was pretty casual, I don't know. There were a bunch of us, it wasn't that he selected anybody in particular. It just seemed very natural, you go into town and find a coffee shop or something. He was married, he had a wife who was given some assistant professorship duties, like tutorial duties or workshops of some kind. She was not very good, she couldn't answer questions at all, poor lady. At that time I guess I had sorted out some other people on campus who were interested in the same subjects, but ... oh, I know what happened. I submitted some articles to, there was a literary magazine, and it was a newspaper we called it. I got very involved in that. In fact, by the time I was maybe a sophomore, I was editor of both of them. I gave a lot of time to it. Do they still have it?
Caitlin Haskett (00:21:25):
Yeah. What were your responsibilities as editor?
Joan Scheuer (00:21:30):
Oh, my big responsibility was to go into the printer and either write the headlines or help set the type. I got my hands really deep into that, and thought it was very important. We chose what articles, what to write about, and we had quite a good group there from all over the campus, not just Rhodes. I had contacts of friends, like Barbara Coolie. Do you know who she is? MacNamay family. Yeah, and others that were active. We thought of things. We had to decide what to write because what is
Joan Scheuer (00:22:36):
there to write? But we
Joan Scheuer (00:22:38):
did invent a lot of things
Caitlin Haskett (00:22:44):
What kind of things did you write about?
Joan Scheuer (00:22:46):
Well, one time we crashed the art museum in Marion that didn't allow students. Then we had to get in surreptitiously, and we got Barbara Coolie in. We wrote it up. Oh, and then what happened was Pearl Harbor, and Vincent Sheen was giving a speech. He was a well known journalist of the period, and he was invited to dinner before his talk at this park. She was the president, and so I was invited, and a few other students. He told the whole assembly that the Navy had been practically knocked out at Pearl Harbor. This was a huge scoop, so we published this in great glee, and claimed to have beaten the Philadelphia papers at that. Also I had got to drive him back to town or something. Anyway, it was a big excitement about Pearl Harbor. Then we had to go to work on the war effort, so we had plenty to write about. It was interesting times.
Caitlin Haskett (00:24:46):
What do you remember about the effects of the war on campus life?
Joan Scheuer (00:24:54):
The first thing that happened was the professors started leaving. The first to leave was the art professor, because he knew Japanese. Then other people, including my, well this was four years. This was my senior year. How are we jumping so fast to senior year? '41, because I went and started at '38.
Caitlin Haskett (00:25:47):
It's okay, we can jump around a little bit.
Joan Scheuer (00:25:49):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:25:59):
You were talking about professors who left.
Joan Scheuer (00:26:02):
Yeah. My economics professor, Miss Northrup, left without saying anything, giving anybody any addresses or reading my honor's thesis or commenting. That went like, nobody ever read it. When I later wanted to apply to law school, I could not find her. I had absolutely no recommendations about what I had achieved as a student. I don't think I'll ever forgive her for that. Yeah, a lot changed because we lost several good professors. Then things changed until we graduated and we found out all of a sudden we could get jobs right away, because the men had all been drafted or were subject to the draft. By that time people's boyfriends and brothers were being drafted. It was pretty stressful for many people.
Caitlin Haskett (00:27:52):
The war really only influenced the end of your time at Bryn Mawr? Do you remember if people talked about or were worried about what was happening before Pearl Harbor and the US joined?
Joan Scheuer (00:28:06):
Yeah. They were very worried. It was very stressful, and many people were very personally engaged because it affected everyone. We had a real draft, it didn't just mean that, the way it is now, so voluntary army. That many people involved, but almost everybody. Oh and the day that Pearl Harbor happened, my classmate who lived in the same floor was listening to the Philharmonic as I was in my room, she's listening in her room. It's announced that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. The Philharmonic is interrupted, she stepped out of her apartment, I stepped out of my apartment.
Joan Scheuer (00:29:35):
Her father was an admiral in the Navy at Pearl Harbor, and she was engaged to some young man on the ship. That was a very tense time. For a week or 10 days, she didn't hear. That woman is Ellen Stone, who is well known philosopher today, and married Professor Weiss, the professor of philosophy. Quite dramatic stories there. We were thoroughly shocked, shaken. That went on, well I guess that was towards the end, but at campus from the moment that the war really took a turn, I think everybody was involved. Not much time for religion.
Caitlin Haskett (00:31:20):
No. Yeah, I want to shift gears a little bit and actually ask about religion. What was it like being Jewish on campus? Did you know other Jewish students at all or anything like that?
Joan Scheuer (00:31:36):
There were not too many, but I knew who they were and, uh, there was no gathering place or services that were held or anything within sight that I can remember. Uh, but I had a close friend who came from Philadelphia who was Jewish. So, uh, we, so I, she either we had, Oh, and the boy was going out to the verse when I was at freshmen was not Jewish. Uh, he was a scientist, uh, w but one thing did happen. There was a student named Goldberg and she asked me to go with her to some, uh, event somewhere where there were Jewish boys, some sort of a school or something like that. And we, and I said, yes, I would have went. And it was horrendous for both of us. Cause these boys hadn't seen girls. They didn't know how to treat the girls. They were very young, it was a disaster that wasn't helpful, but that was a horrible experience. Uh, I mean they really chased. It was very unfortunate. Did I meet any Jewish boys there? No. Haverford, I didn't see much of Haverford boys, but some people did. Later my daughter went to Bryn Mawr and she has a whole group of Haverford friends. I don't know that there's a Jewish temple or ...
Caitlin Haskett (00:34:52):
I don't, I'm not sure.
Joan Scheuer (00:34:53):
A place, there was something.
Caitlin Haskett (00:34:57):
I'm not sure if there was one around when you would've been at Bryn Mawr. There's a couple on the main line now though. You mentioned your friend who was from Philadelphia who was Jewish. Did she ever go back into the city for services or anything like that? No?
Joan Scheuer (00:35:21):
No.
Caitlin Haskett (00:35:25):
How did you get to know her?
Joan Scheuer (00:35:30):
I can't remember. I don't really remember.
Caitlin Haskett (00:35:46):
What was she like?
Joan Scheuer (00:35:51):
Uh,
Joan Scheuer (00:35:54):
She was interested in the same things I was, I thought she was not, I can't remember what she majored in but it wasn't economics, because people who majored in that I can count on my left hand, four people was all. Oh, I know what happened. During the summer, four of us went to work for the government in Washington DC. We all were loaned a house in Washington by a friendly Bryn Mawr alumni, and it was beautiful, and we had a very nice time. One woman had a blind date, and he walked in. Oh, she was such a good looking, beautiful girl. He walked in and I was in the living room, and he asked where she was. I just knew they were going to end up getting married, they did. It was nice time, that was Margie McGrath. Not Jewish, nobody was Jewish in that group of economists.
Caitlin Haskett (00:38:01):
What about
Caitlin Haskett (00:38:02):
people in Rhodes? Did you have any friends in the dorm who were Jewish?
Joan Scheuer (00:38:15):
Well, Ellen Stone was not Jewish. Her father was an admiral
Joan Scheuer (00:38:26):
Um,
Joan Scheuer (00:38:29):
She ended up the top of her class. She had brilliant red hair. Who else was my friend in the dorm? I don't know. I wouldn't have searched around for them necessarily, but there weren't so many Jewish students at the whole college.
Caitlin Haskett (00:39:06):
Yeah.
Joan Scheuer (00:39:12):
It's changed.
Caitlin Haskett (00:39:15):
Did you feel like religion factored into the way that you interacted with other people at Bryn Mawr even if you weren't seeking out Jewish friends?
Joan Scheuer (00:39:26):
Well, you're getting at something. There was a little, I felt a little tension about the people I admired and who were working on the newspaper when I got there. Some of them were clearly ... they clearly had a problem with my being Jewish. Which I put down to social snobbery, they were very old family, waspy people. I did notice that, but I didn't get the idea that there was a lot of antisemitism there. We were so protected from it.
Caitlin Haskett (00:40:41):
Sort of in a bubble on campus.
Joan Scheuer (00:40:46):
Yeah. Everywhere, yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:40:50):
Tell me a little bit more about what you experienced from the older people on the college news. Yeah, what was that like?
Joan Scheuer (00:41:03):
I was curious about them. This woman would talk about her social standing and her family history, mainly her family history. She'd make it
Joan Scheuer (00:41:34):
a little too clear that I could never aspire to anything like that. I don't know. You sniff it out, I can tell you, but she was the only person I noticed that. I don't think there's so many people like that.
Caitlin Haskett (00:42:13):
Did you ever discuss religion with any of your friends on campus?
Joan Scheuer (00:42:18):
Probably, I don't remember making an issue of it because oh well. It's the sort of thing we talk about. I'm trying to think about some of the people as I got a little older, because I was more interested, I was so interested in this, getting the college news out and the other things I did, I didn't worry about religion. We talked about philosophy. We talked philosophy and we had good discussions about same sort of, who am I discussions one does have. Paul Weiss, the philosophy teacher, was Jewish. He and his wife were pretty hospitable, and they'd have people in their home, invite us and others. I'm sure he didn't pick out the Jewish students, but I think the Jewish students were very comfortable with him. One's relationship with the professors was very
Joan Scheuer (00:44:32):
important when I was there, because they did open their homes and they did develop individual personal relationships with students. Is that still true?
Caitlin Haskett (00:44:52):
Not that I've experienced so much. Who were some of the professors that you became close with?
Joan Scheuer (00:45:02):
Well, there's Paul Weiss, then there was a German professor who is not Jewish. They were very warm. There was a woman that was the daughter of a Jewish scholar who Bryn Mawr invited to come to teach. The Jewish scholar died, her name was Ruth Fiesel. F-I-E-S-E-L, I think. This was a tragedy for that girl. She was so needy after the death of her mother. She was, we all tried to help her but she never really ... I guess she did finally get back readjusted and back to finding out who she herself was, but there were episodes like that, that you could say we're products of the war. It was really terrible.
Caitlin Haskett (00:46:41):
Was Ruth a classmate of yours?
Joan Scheuer (00:46:51):
Yes. Her whole story I was pretty close to.
Caitlin Haskett (00:46:57):
What was she like?
Joan Scheuer (00:47:13):
It took her several years to find out, to mature. She was devastated. I don't blame her, she was totally lost in every way. She didn't have a surrounding family, and she had to adopt really a new country. They came from Germany, so that was a Jewish drama. Can I think of any others? Oh, and by the way, Louisa Horton my freshman associate didn't last. She left after the first year, and came to New York to be an actress.
Caitlin Haskett (00:48:35):
Is that why she left?
Joan Scheuer (00:48:38):
Yeah. She did pretty well. She was right. She did the right thing. To me, I thought it was an enormous leap, because I thought so much about the things we were learning and finding ourselves. She already knew herself.
Caitlin Haskett (00:49:10):
It's impressive at a young age.
Joan Scheuer (00:49:11):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:49:15):
Shifting gears a little bit, what do you remember about your social life while you were at Bryn Mawr? What kind of things did you get up to with your friends?
Joan Scheuer (00:49:27):
Well, if you talk about dating-
Caitlin Haskett (00:49:30):
Sure.
Joan Scheuer (00:49:30):
... as I said, my first year I went out with this young man who was I think at Penn. I did go to some of the fraternity things, and they were very segregated. I didn't like that much.
Caitlin Haskett (00:50:00):
Because they were segregated or for other reasons?
Joan Scheuer (00:50:10):
I'm not sure. Maybe I didn't like the people in the fraternities, or the fraternity I was at, visiting, at the dance or whatever it was.
Caitlin Haskett (00:50:33):
What about after your freshman year? Did you continue to date while you were at Bryn Mawr?
Joan Scheuer (00:50:40):
Yeah, but not ... oh in the summer, because we had this summer in Washington, I had some dates. It was that Navy guy I went out with. Not Jewish, I don't know. I had some dates but not a real social ...I wonder if I went home at all. It wasn't, I must have. I must have gone home, and then at home in Scarsdale, I had a pretty extensive social life with, there was a temple and there was a Jewish dancing school where they arranged dances so we did have that very important, big dances. We dressed up and got into a long dress, and I had a whole group of young men there, one of which I was very close to for a number of years. I guess that was the real social piece of it.
Caitlin Haskett (00:53:45):
You think, do you remember going home during the school year or just on breaks do you think?
Joan Scheuer (00:53:54):
Well, what does that mean, on breaks?
Caitlin Haskett (00:53:56):
During spring break or winter break.
Joan Scheuer (00:54:00):
Yeah, sure. Those were when you would have the dances and the other things, and see that group of people, and young men and women. Women too, had lots of friends there.
Caitlin Haskett (00:54:18):
Yeah.
Joan Scheuer (00:54:29):
That was much more specifically Jewish. My parents, they would be the sons and daughters of my parents' friends, mostly.
Caitlin Haskett (00:54:50):
Did you feel like it was a big change from the community you had at Bryn Mawr? Yeah, what was the similarities and differences between the community of friends you had in Scarsdale and the friends you had at Bryn Mawr?
Joan Scheuer (00:55:13):
Well, the friends I had at Bryn Mawr were not Jewish and for the most part the friends I had at Scarsdale were all Jewish.
Caitlin Haskett (00:55:41):
Would you talk about different things or do different things together? Anything like that?
Joan Scheuer (00:55:46):
Nothing different. People are the same.
Caitlin Haskett (00:55:50):
Fair enough, I was just curious.
Joan Scheuer (00:55:51):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:55:55):
All right.
Caitlin Haskett (00:55:57):
Do you remember when you were a senior, approaching the end of your time at Bryn Mawr, what were your expectations for what you were going to do after you graduated?
Joan Scheuer (00:56:10):
I think I thought I was go to law school. This was in the back of my mind, I think. I know it was later, but also I wanted to work with the union movement, which I did. Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (00:56:59):
How did that, wanting to go to law school or work with the unions compare to what your classmates wanted to do? Do you know?
Joan Scheuer (00:57:12):
It depends which classmates. Some of them were in the same track, and others not. When we got the offer to work for the government when the war started, that became pretty clear. Everybody wanted to work for the war, and I took a civil service exam. Right away, jobs opened up because I was on the civil service list. I was amazed, we were all amazed that we could get jobs right away, because we were Depression kids.
Caitlin Haskett (00:57:58):
What kind of work did you do in the civil service after Bryn Mawr?
Joan Scheuer (00:58:03):
When the war started, I worked for the War Production Board. I got a job in an office where we were allocating scarce materials, steel, aluminum, and one other. I got a job right away, and then I met people there.
Caitlin Haskett (00:58:43):
After Bryn Mawr, you started working and then you mentioned you went to law school eventually.
Joan Scheuer (00:58:48):
I didn't.
Caitlin Haskett (00:58:50):
You didn't? You wanted to but you never did?
Joan Scheuer (00:58:52):
No. I didn't go to law school, I am not a lawyer. I worked for a union during the war because the unions had a no strike pledge during World War II in the beginning. They had a lot of paperwork, and they were overwhelmed. I went to Chicago and started working with a guy who was helping a union. That's how I started working for a union, or the union. Yeah. I worked for more than one.
Caitlin Haskett (01:00:02):
I know this is a big question, but maybe we can fully shift gears and talk about just what your life has been like since you graduated. You've talked a little bit about the beginnings of your career and working for the union, but if there's more you want to share about that or just anywhere your life has gone.
Joan Scheuer (01:00:21):
What happened finally, I was working in Chicago, and that was really work. Finally I realized I should go home to mommy. Why? Because ... anyhow, I decided enough of this. I'm going to go home. I can't remember exactly, something happened in the war, like it had to do with a change. Peace came. That was basically the idea, so I went back to Scarsdale, but it wasn't Scarsdale anymore. The family had moved to Manhattan, and so I ended up where my parents were in an apartment where they barely had room for me. Summer came, and my sister
Joan Scheuer (01:02:20):
and I were invited to the country club Saturday by a friend of my mother's, and we drove down from where we were spending the summer. That's how I met my husband.
Caitlin Haskett (01:02:53):
He just happened to be at the country club that day too?
Joan Scheuer (01:02:55):
No. It was a party for him, and my mother, this is the truth of it. My mother had, she went to Barnard. They were in the same class at the college, and they knew each other, so they knew there were a couple. One family had boys and one family had girls, we were the girls. My sister and I came down to this country club where the party was being given for my husband. I think it was his birthday, husband to be. That's how we met. I'm going to have to go to the bathroom, I'll be right back.
Caitlin Haskett (01:04:00):
You mentioned meeting your husband and then you just said that your marriage is a main focus in your life.
Joan Scheuer (01:04:07):
Well, I said the main part, but I meant not chronologically. I spent most of my years as a married wife and mother. Now I'm a great-grandmother. Yeah. I have eight great-grandchildren and 12 grandchildren, something like that. It's quite wonderful.
Caitlin Haskett (01:04:45):
You first had to have children to have grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Did you raise your children in New York? Yeah, did you raise your children in New York?
Joan Scheuer (01:04:57):
Well, no. We lived most of our married life in a suburb called Larchmont, which is about 20 miles from here. It's on a large
Joan Scheuer (01:05:18):
body of water, the Long Island Sound, so that my husband was a real boat lover. That became a big part of my life, and my children's lives. I've had some tragedy, I lost my eldest son when he was a grown man, and had himself three children, and was a very important part of our lives. That was sad episode and didn't go away, doesn't go away. Otherwise it's pretty fascinating watching everybody grow up, and it goes by very fast. My husband, when we met at that party, last seen at the party at the club, he was much more Jewish than I. In fact, he became quite active. He was president of the Board of the Hebrew Union College, which trains rabbis.
Joan Scheuer (01:06:58):
We had pretty active life in that circle. I know a lot of rabbis now. He was also always such an avid boater that we owned a large sailboat, and sailed on it every summer with our children, with our friends. You could sleep on the boat, it's a big thing. We managed it ourselves, I had to learn to do that. I learned to love it, and we went once all the way up to Canada with it. We brought our family in and our kids. Most of my children liked to sail, but one in particular never did. He's the one who, he lives nearby me and I see a lot of him now. It's been very gratifying, I've enjoyed the present, which still keeps me close to them. I'm very lucky.
Caitlin Haskett (01:08:45):
Did you have any career after you met your husband?
Joan Scheuer (01:08:52):
Oh yeah. I did, but what happened was I took ... in the '70's, let's see, I got a doctorate, a PhD. That immediately opened some doors, and I began working right away when I got the degree with the New York City Board of Education as a revenue person who studied the way the state was funding the schools, the way the federal government, very little money was coming in, and the city. How the schools in the city were supported. I worked at the Board of Education here for 10 years, which was too long. I should not have worked so long.
Caitlin Haskett (01:10:07):
Why not?
Joan Scheuer (01:10:10):
Because I was in sort of a rut. Then I quit that and I began working with groups of people who were leaders of organizations that got together frequently. I was their financial advisor for another long set of years, so that was quite fruitful and very nice people there. That's what I did in between there and here.
Joan Scheuer (01:10:57):
Still have a lot of friends, those jobs people mix Jewish and not Jewish. It's been a very happy life. I'm very lucky
Caitlin Haskett (01:11:27):
What kinds of things do you spend your time on nowadays?
Joan Scheuer (01:11:34):
Well, here we are in this retirement community, it's another community. It's a lot like first week in college, you get to know the people, you sort them out. Here there are a lot of people who are not really well in one form or another. That leaves the people who are well who all kind of know who they are, and after you've sorted that out, what we do here, the biggest thing is they have a lot of activities. They even have things like figure drawing. I do a lot of art. I didn't tell you about that. I've always had that hobby or interest. That's my picture, I have some other pictures that are up. There are activities here, they have a lot of exercise which I like, so keep moving. I do something active every day if I can.
Caitlin Haskett (01:13:13):
That's good.
Joan Scheuer (01:13:14):
Then we do things, and they have lectures. They have jewelry making, we did some, I liked that. We have some people like to have clay, they really try to get people to use their hands, their brains, and whatever they have left. Dinner is very important, every night you have to arrange your dinner especially so you have some social demands.
Caitlin Haskett (01:14:02):
There's no eating in your apartment by yourself?
Joan Scheuer (01:14:04):
You can, but they try to get people to make arrangements. They have set up the tables in the dining room for four. I think that is by the design, I think they know what they're doing here, so that people have to pay attention and arrange dinner. That takes half the day. They have the regular exercise programs, and they managed to bring some lecturers here. Somebody, there's a lady who does wonderful talks on opera and classical music that Preston Twanley, he used to do it for QXR. He was here last night, and movies every night so you can ...
Caitlin Haskett (01:15:29):
Yeah. Sounds like a lot of interesting stuff.
Joan Scheuer (01:15:31):
That's the idea, they keep people to their best ability occupied.
Caitlin Haskett (01:15:43):
Yeah. I realized, I never asked you about traditions while you were at Bryn Mawr. What do you remember about traditions at Bryn Mawr? I know this is a change of topic.
Joan Scheuer (01:15:53):
Well, I did certainly remember Lantern Night and May Day. Those stand out. Are there others?
Caitlin Haskett (01:16:11):
Yeah, parade night.
Joan Scheuer (01:16:11):
Don't remember that. Don't think we had it.
Caitlin Haskett (01:16:15):
Did you have a favorite tradition between Lantern Night and May Day?
Joan Scheuer (01:16:24):
No, they're very different but I liked them, and I ended up there.
Caitlin Haskett (01:16:28):
Oh yeah.
Joan Scheuer (01:16:32):
I didn't get it until a few years ago. I don't know what happened to the original lantern, but a few years ago, it was my 75th reunion, and my daughter had her 25th reunion. We decided to go down there, and they were very receptive, and they were wonderful. Is Kim ... who is the president of Bryn Mawr now?
Caitlin Haskett (01:17:09):
Kim Cassidy.
Joan Scheuer (01:17:10):
Kim Cassidy, yeah. Well, she was very outgoing and friendly to us. We had a wonderful reception. There was one other person in my year who graduated the same year I did. With her, her name is Christine. so we all ... don't ask me her last name, I've forgotten.
Caitlin Haskett (01:17:54):
Okay
Joan Scheuer (01:17:58):
So We had a great time. They presented me with that lantern.
Caitlin Haskett (01:18:11):
That's lovely.
Joan Scheuer (01:18:13):
I'm very happy to have that, so I do care about traditions.
Caitlin Haskett (01:18:19):
Yeah. What do you remember about getting your lantern, the first lantern initially when you were a first year at Bryn Mawr?
Joan Scheuer (01:18:30):
Very little. I don't remember it, it seems I lost it so I don't know where it is, but they replaced it. I do remember the business about May Day with the hoops, the seniors were supposed to give you, leave at your door. Do they still do that?
Caitlin Haskett (01:18:55):
Yeah
Joan Scheuer (01:18:55):
I remember that, yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (01:18:57):
Do you remember who left you a hoop?
Joan Scheuer (01:19:00):
Yeah, I did get several, but I don't know that I remember who. I had some friends in the senior class, but I've forgotten their names.
Caitlin Haskett (01:19:19):
What else do you remember about May Day?
Joan Scheuer (01:19:27):
It's quite joyous. Oh, I remember W. H. Orden was hanging around our campus one May Day and just ... trying not to be noticed or noticed, sort of hiding against columns. I do remember that, watching May Day.
Caitlin Haskett (01:20:03):
Yeah. I guess people like to come for the spectacle.
Joan Scheuer (01:20:05):
It's a spectacle.
Caitlin Haskett (01:20:05):
Yeah
Joan Scheuer (01:20:08):
A great chance to preserve those crazy moments. It still goes on, that's good.
Caitlin Haskett (01:20:30):
Yeah. To wrap up a little bit, I have two more questions. The first is what sort of influence do you the Bryn Mawr has had on your life? Or do you think it has had any influence?
Joan Scheuer (01:20:48):
I think it did encourage a kind of rigor, and I think that its graduates know the value of hard work and demand hard work. As for the subject matter opening up, I didn't get much out of it. As an economist, I got some of the language but I'm not a real economist. Had to be a school of finance economist. Maybe I never wanted to be. I'm not mathematical enough nowadays. I appreciate what I got out of Bryn Mawr, and when we went back, I was blown away by how beautiful it is. It's more beautiful than ever it was.
Caitlin Haskett (01:22:11):
Yeah. It's a gorgeous place.
Joan Scheuer (01:22:18):
Yeah.
Caitlin Haskett (01:22:24):
What do you think, if you can remember yourself when you were a senior at Bryn Mawr getting ready to graduate, what do you think that version of yourself would be surprised to know about the life that you've led since then?
Joan Scheuer (01:22:39):
Well, speaking of that, suddenly I remember being on the lawn at graduation with this Ellen Stone. She said something to me like, "Did you ever realize that your name makes you sound Jewish?" My maiden name was Gross. It suddenly came to me that she thought I was not Jewish, and didn't ever know, she got me a little wrong maybe. That was a funny conversation, at graduation.
Caitlin Haskett (01:23:35):
Where did that conversation go from there after she said that?
Joan Scheuer (01:23:39):
Nowhere. We were just standing with our families sort of awkwardly, and maybe getting ready to go to some event or parade or march or play with hoops, I don't remember that, but that kind of shocked me.
Caitlin Haskett (01:24:08):
Yeah.
Joan Scheuer (01:24:14):
It suggested that people didn't know I was Jewish, and maybe they would've acted differently.
Caitlin Haskett (01:24:24):
Maybe.
Joan Scheuer (01:24:26):
Yeah. Are there many more Jewish students there now?
Caitlin Haskett (01:24:36):
I think it's about 12% to 20% Jewish students now.
Joan Scheuer (01:24:42):
That's a lot more than it was.
Caitlin Haskett (01:24:49):
Yeah. All right. Before we finish then turn off the recorder, is there anything else you want to add in to this recording?
Joan Scheuer (01:25:01):
Well, just that as I look back on my life, it's mostly as a life. 63 years of marriage is a different life.
Caitlin Haskett (01:25:17):
Yeah.
Joan Scheuer (01:25:21):
Marriage and motherhood and family life. It's a little hard to remember.
Caitlin Haskett (01:25:35):
I understand that. All right, well thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. It's been really wonderful.
Joan Scheuer (01:25:45):
Well, I enjoyed it.
Caitlin Haskett (01:25:46):
All right.